Richards Garage/Workshop build

[AndyP]

looks good too me. Neat and tidy too.

 

[Crispylettuce]

Looks good. The plinth stretchers are a good idea!

 

[Richard39]

Thanks for the tip regarding the photos. I used to spend a lot of time in forums uploading photos via photobucket, but not so much these days. When I last tried to use photobucket it was so bloated with ads that it was near impossible to use on my tablet, so I gave onedrive a go as I already have a Microsoft account. After a bit of messing about I've found how to get the url for the photo out of the mobile site. I'm sure it would be a damn sight easier on a PC, but I rarely fire the old girl up these days.

I'll the keep the photos coming as I plod along . Eventually I'm sure there will be loads more questions.

 

[Richard39]

It's been quite a while, and not an awful lot has changed in nearly two years. I managed to do the vast majority of the block work last summer before running out of sand with one block left to do. I was then beset by back problems that curtailed any further work, but I'm on the mend and making progress once more.

A complete lack of any experience of building anything like this meant I didn't even know where to start when deciding how much materials I would need. I decided that learning how to use Sketchup was probably the best way forward. I was pleasantly surprised how quickly I picked it up from just watching a few videos, and I've managed to get to the stage where I have the frame drawn up. It also means I have been able to work backwards from the permitted development restrictions on eaves, ridge and distance from boundary, so I can maximise the building dimensions without winging when building it.

Anyhow, here a few images from Sketchup to show where my thinking is going.

 

[Malc2098]

Looking good to me.

Is there any reason why the rafters can't sit over the uprights to give you a line of timber from floor, up the wall and up and over the roof and down again? That should make it much more convenient when filing internal sheathing. You will have an unbroken line to fit to.

 

[Dan0741]

Good work with Sketchup Rich - I must have a go.

I have already posted this but some years ago, but it worth thinking about omitting some of your rafter ties? It will make the space more usable for the parts that have rafter ties in the form of a loft to lob spare timber etc, and also means you have a part of the shop where you have some height to spin large 8x4 sheets or similar if you need to - this has already proved invaluable in my shop. It has helped me to have this extended height area near the door so bringing in sheets etc is easier. I can stand 3m 4x2's upright in that area. I also raised some of my rafter ties - I think a rise of a 3rd of the height of the rafter is about the max but someone with more knowledge than i will confirm.

Good work

Dan

 

[Malc2098]

:text-+1:

And in the area where there are no ties in my 'shop, I have fixed the LED panels. And the ends didn't need any further lighting.

 

[Richard39]

Thanks for the comments, as it keeps me thinking.

Re the rafter spacing, they are at 400mm centres to give the roof space reasonable weight carrying capacity. The wall studs are at about 600mm (or thereabouts to allow easy placing of the OSB), so without messing about with one or the other I can't get them to uniformly match. Not ideal, but I can cope with any buggeration during sheeting knowing that they aren't designed to meet so I don't need to worry during construction.

Omitting at least one rafter tie is something I have been pondering as access would be very difficult at 400mm centres. I don't have a structural ridge beam, so I'm guessing I would have to try to tie the rafters into adjacent rafters, but this may be a bodge? I don't have the issue of working with large pieces of timber as my use for the garage is to primarily waste time working on old cars, but probably with use as a general workshop. The storage is more for bulky car parts rather than long lengths of anything. I've already lifted the ties to give a bit more headroom, but every increase in headroom obviously loses storage space, which is approximately 1.5m from top of the ties to the ridge as it stands. My other option is to increase rafter spacing at one end to give ease of access to the rest, and not to use that part for any serious storage.

 

[tabs]

Hi Richard

Nice job on the brickwork, I also couldn't lay my hand on any 50mm blocks so had to cut 100s. I'm in the northwest.

 

[Richard39]

After giving it some thought, I've decided to change the roof design. When I considered the actual storage space that would be available it was amounting to tunnel that wouldn't be that usable, so I've bit the bullet and decided to fit a structural ridge beam and leave the centre of the roof open. I'm going to drop the ties down to wall plate level at the end where my workbench and tool storage will be, giving me a good amount of easily accessible storage. I'm going to leave the ties raised at main entrance as I need headroom for the sectional door, but I would need something to hang it from so I may as well utilise the ties to make a little bit more storage.

I do have a question regarding supporting the ridge beam. Are king posts necessary? I've looked at some other builds on here and they don't always seem to be fitted, but it isn't clear why.

 

[Malc2098]

Practically, I think you've chosen a good design to utilise space.

One of the Forum has a family wedding to deal with currently and may not be available for architectural and structural comment, observation or advice.

For my little understanding of trusses, the king post is in tension, not compression, and is holding up the tie beam, whereas a crown post is supported by the tie beam. I believe the tie beams in the majority of the builds on this site are short and stout enough not to be held up by a king post. (a bit like me!! )

 

[TrimTheKing]

I agree with Malc, I think you’ve made the right call there. My workshop is brick built so I don’t have king post issue so can’t answer that, but I too have created a mezzanine above my workbench area for timber and other storage while leaving the main machining area open to the ridge.

Yours is looking good. I’m looking forward to seeing it progress.

 

[Richard39]

Not much progress to report unfortunately due to a severe lack of free time of recent.

Going back to my question regarding supporting the ridge beam, I think I may have used the wrong terminology when talking about a king post. All this talk of monarchs and jewels is going over my head :lol:. In pure laymen's terms, I'm not sure if I need to directly support the ridge beam at either end from the point of view of transferring load (rather than just to make construction simpler)?

Is there any way of calculating the size of ridge beam needed? I've currently drawn it up assuming a 225 x 47 piece of C16 will be sufficient, but there is no science behind it. Is a scarf joint acceptable on a structural ridge, just in case getting a 7 metre length isn't straight forward?

I was hoping to fully design up the garage in sketchup before I started, but in the interests of achieving something in the real world I've decided to crack on and work out what materials I need to get the frame up, OSB'd, insulated and membrane on. Then I can hopefully get it built to that stage before the ravages of winter set in and come back to look fully at what I need to clad, roof it and put doors on. Getting saturated, freezing, and thawing did my block work no favours last winter, and I fear another winter exposed to all weathers will mean it needs removing and redoing. I hate having to redo work when that effort could be better spent making progress, so I'm using it as my motivation to pull my finger out and get building .

 

[Mike G]

You cannot have a join in a structural beam, other than at a support. However, if you are having only some of the trusses un-tied, and the rest with ties, then the ridge beam is only structural where is is flying over the gap between complete trusses. It doesn't have to run the full length of your workshop. It also doesn't have to be supported on a post/s, as the triangles of trusses holds it up perfectly well.

 

[Richard39]

Another couple of years pass and life continued to get in the way of building this, but I resolved that this spring it was going to be built. Along came this spring and we all know what happened, so that scuppered my plans. One of the best springs in years for dry settled weather as well .

So, I decided progress needed to be made or another year would be lost. This all arrived this week to allow it to happen. Obviously not an ideal time of year with the weather turning and days getting shorter, but I'm sure I'll make it happen.

 

[Richard39]

The weather forecast looked good this week, so I took a few days off to make the frames. Today the other half and I got all the frames up and in position. It went surprising well with only one slight measurement error that meant a few packers were needed between two panels. Pretty pleased with the progress made

I set my SLR up in the house to take a photo every few minutes, and made a little time lapse video. Not sure if it's possible to embed it, so here is a link...
https://1drv.ms/v/s!Agmg-E5yCkuoiEOAjwQRkBCa2sgm

 

[RogerS]

Excellent video, that man. :eusa-clap:

Fingers crossed for the weather for you...not sure where you are...we've wall-to-wall rain for the next week.

So which one are you ? hat or check shirt ? :lol:

 

[Malc2098]

Don't you just love it when a plan comes together!

 

[Richard39]

I'm right at the bottom of North Yorkshire. Looks like rain all weekend, but with a young child to entertain there will be no rafters cut this weekend anyway . I've got Monday free so I might get chance to start putting the roof on then if the weather is good, but there is still a little bit of framing to finish off around the side door and window openings.

I'm the one with the power tool, of course

If anybody is thinking of adding a power tool to the Christmas list then I would highly recommend a DeWalt impact drill for driving screws in. I bought good quality torx head screws with impact bits and driving them in has been an absolute doddle. It makes short work of driving screws in, and it will push them all the way through the timber if you let it. It equally makes short work of removing them for the inevitable re-adjustments .

 

[AndyP]

Well done and the time lapse is a great idea.

 

[Woodbloke]

Well done and the time lapse is a great idea.

:text-+1: Indeed, great idea - Rob

 

[DaveL]

Well done and the time lapse is a great idea.

+1
I wish I had that on my camera.

 

[RogerS]

Well done and the time lapse is a great idea.

+1
I wish I had that on my camera.

Does your camera have a remote input ? I didn't realise that mine had until recently.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Great idea doing the time lapse. Fingers crossed for some fine weather.

 

[Richard39]

I've got a few days off, and the weather looks dry, so it's time to get started on the roof.

I've got a 7 metre long ridge, structural in part, that needs making from two pieces of 225x47 timber. I'm planning on using a half lap scarf joint to join them together, but I have a couple of questions that hopefully someone can help with?

1. Is there a rule of thumb for the size of the half lap joint needed?
2. I plan on using coach bolts to clamp it together. What would be the ideal size? I'm thinking M10 or M12.

 

[Mike G]

Obviously Richard you must make the joint in a place which isn't structural. And in a non-spanning location the ridge won't be under any load (it's just for tying the ends of the rafters together at the correct spacing), so it doesn't matter what you connect them with. Most people just nail some ply on the sides. As for the proportions..........generally make it as long as you sensibly can.

 

[Richard39]

Thanks Mike. My plan is for the join to be in a section that isn't structural. The two lengths are 4.8 metres each, so its easy enough to achieve.

I think I get what you are saying regarding the joint - so long as it is strong enough to hold the join together until the rafters are in place it will be good enough.

 

[Mike G]

Sensibly you would make the join a couple of rafters away from the clear span, if you can. You could also use a prop underneath it during the construction of the roof, until the rafters have taken up its load.

 

[Richard39]

Progress was slow but steady this week. I started on the ridge beam and decided that as I had never made any kind of scarf joint before, why not make two? As I had two lengths of 4.8 metre timber, and I needed a 7 metre ridge beam, I thought why not put one piece of timber in the central section and have a scarf at either end which will sit within the sections with ties.

Next I moved on to making rafters. I've never made a rafter in my life, so I anticipated mistakes and over ordered on timber. First two rafters made, mocked up on the floor to double check bird mouths are in the right place, and then put into place. No great dramas and I was pleasantly surprised. The overhang was 30mm longer than intended and I wasn't sure why :eusa-think: . However, it all seemed ok, so I cracked on. In my eagerness to get the rafters in place I hadn't used one to create a template, but no big deal I'll just mark one out again, cut it, and use it as a template. To cut a long story short the next two rafters I cut weren't right and I wasn't entirely sure why. Scrap them and start over, and I managed to make another two rafters that were difference again but still not right. It started to look like the first two were blind luck . Decided to give up for the day as I was clearly missing something and getting nowhere.

In the evening I watched a couple of videos on YouTube on how to cut a common rafter. Found a good one that explained and showed it well. Back on making rafters this morning, quick refresh with the video and I soon realised where my measuring error was happening. Despite the rain I was able to make progress and get a pair of rafters up at the other end and I installed some ties as well for a belt and braces approach, especially as the main door opening has no other means of tying both sides together. Pressed on with setting up to get the ridge in place and I'm part way there. I was running out of light so I decided it was best to call it day where it was rather than try to be a hero with a 7 metre long piece of timber in the dark. I've got a few days available next week to do some more, so hopefully I should get the ridge up and all the rafters and ties in place.

 

[Mike G]

You be very careful, Richard. Wet concrete, step ladder, big piece of wood up high....

 

[Malc2098]

Reminds me of my rafters! Well done.

Coming along.

 

[Richard39]

The step ladder is finished with at this stage, Mike. It isn't immediately clear but in the background hidden by the step ladder is the triple extender ladder. I was re-reading your build and it isn't immediately clear how you got the other end of the beam up. What was your method?

Cheers Malc. It's good to finally get it from the screen to reality.

 

[Richard39]

Well, nearly a year to the day since my last update :shock: . Progress has been slow and steady, and edging towards fully weather tight.

Back in December last year the ridge beam went up slow and steady. There was some cursing at times, especially when I got the beam up and it didn't want to drop into place. I ended up cutting small reliefs into the edges of rafters to guide the beam into the slot. It also required a bit of unexpected percussive persuasion to get it to sit square to the edges of the rafter.

Naturally, rafters came next. Should have been easy, just using the templates I had. Wrong! Lots of measuring, cutting, up the ladders, down the ladders, re-measuring, new rafter cut, still wrong..... I went back to first principles and took exact measurements in numerous places and used various tables and/or apps to work out the required dimensions, and I was still getting rafters that were close, but not right. I never did 100% work out why, and I ended up simply making the top plumb cut and marking out the birds mouth, offering it up and seeing how close the pencil markings for the birds mouth was, and adjusting as necessary before cutting it. This made getting the rafters up very slow as I was having to climb up and down twice, at least, for every rafter. Possible issues are that the ridge is quite long with two scarf joints in it, meaning it isn't quite straight in both planes, and I also believe my wall plates were a few degrees away from square. Got there in the end though, and thank god I deliberately over ordered on the timber for the rafters in anticipation of a few unsalvageable errors.

More to come later...

 

[Malc2098]

Sometimes it seems a shame to cover it all up after all the work that's gone into it.

 

[Regex]

Nice progress on your build, I'm impressed by the size of the building you're making. Like you I found sketchup to be fairly straightforward to use, and the time invested in learning to use it really paid dividends for planning and materials ordering.

Your troubles with measuring, cutting, and going up and down several times with the roof rafters makes me glad I decided to go with a simple flat roof structure, the only measurement was length

I found that once I had a halfway decent roof covering on the pressure was off somewhat and I could relax, sit back, and plan my next moves.

Are you planning to fully insulate your build?

 

[Richard39]

I should say that the last photo is from January, so there is a bit more progress to show, including insulating.

Next job was install the joists. I opted for a part joisted, part open design to give me some storage and still have a feeling of space. At the far end, away from the main opening, the joists are sat directly on the walls to give maximum storage above and the rafters were spaced closer to together at that end for maximum weight bearing capacity. I installed one more joist than shown on the sketchup drawing to extend the area slightly. The thinking being that this end could be totally enclosed from the rest of the garage at some point in the future if a home office or small workshop was desired. I'll be leaving it open to the garage as it suits my needs that way. At the other end I have installed the joists 200mm above the walls to give a more open space, and I will only be putting bulky but light items at that end as the rafters are spaced out further.

January 2021

As time allowed I then lined out the walls. Still being in the worst of the weather, and being aware that it was likely to be exposed for longer than was ideal, I made sure to leave a good gap between the OSB and the base so that they didn't wick up any standing water. When it is all completed I can install skirting to make it neat.

March 2021

Next was to line out the roof, which I wasn't looking forward to. The walls were easy enough to deal with alone, but trying to hold a full sheet of OSB above my head whilst screwing it in place was going to be a different kettle of fish. When the weather improved in early spring I decided to give it a go. Unfortunately a winter in the open meant the roof timbers weren't quite as square and true as when they were installed. It was nothing to be concerned about, but it meant that simply offering up a sheet of OSB and sticking some screws in was now made a bit more of a faff. After several hours of trying to get a single sheet installed and failing miserably, I gave up and retreated to consider how I was going to achieve this in a safe and timely manner. Fast forward to July and I had the somewhat obvious idea of simply cutting each sheet into thirds, and installing these smaller pieces. Obviously it involved a bit more work, but it made it perfectly manageable for a person working alone, and brought my mojo back.

July 2021. First sheet cut into thirds length ways, and then installed.

 

[Richard39]

As time allowed during August I plodded on with lining the roof out, and finally completed all the faffy bits around the joists.

August 2021

Next I moved onto insulating the roof. The costs of some types of insulation have become quite eye watering, so I opted for 100mm loft insulation as a reasonable compromise between cost and effectiveness. It will still help keep the place at reasonable temperature year round, but having worked in completely uninsulated garages in the depths of winter in the past this will be like a palace by comparison . My ideal choice of roof covering was to be slates, but I realised I was biting off a bit more than I could chew in terms of learning new skills and it would have held back progress, so it was decided long ago to use metal roofing sheets as a final roof covering. That still meant it needed a membrane and some battens, but position/spacing of battens was less critical. Installing the membrane on a 7M long roof, 4M up in the air was real fun on my own :lol: . It isn't the prettiest of installations, but it will do the job.

Next was to insulate the walls. I decided upon cavity batts so that they could be easily cut to size and pushed into place without fear of it slumping in the future. I contemplated using loft insulation and netting it in place to hold it up, but decided the cost saving wasn't worth the hassle. Again, cost and effectiveness was part of the decision making process, so I opted for 50mm insulation.

I don't many photos of the progess, but i'm sure you all get the idea

September 2021.

And that is where it sits currently. Just waiting on materials now to continue the construction. It is almost weather tight now, which is a good feeling after so long.

 

[Malc2098]

Good job!

 

[AndyP]

Certainly worth the wait and you have time yet if you do not want to hold the record for the longest ever WH2 workshop build.

5

 

[TrimTheKing]

Certainly worth the wait and you have time yet if you do not want to hold the record for the longest ever WH2 workshop build.

5

:? :eusa-whistle: