Screws - please recommend some quality ones

[AJB Temple]

This topic drives me to distraction. I broke three screws today. I am not talking about general woodworking screws as I use Reisser and they are very reliable. This is more specialist stuff.

Today I am fitting an Ingersoll 10 cyclinder lock to a pair of oak doors. It requires precision fitting. The barrel is held in place on a hardened steel back plate by four countersunk bolts: all fine. The backplate is held to the door by two stainless steel looking pozi screws of self tapping style. These will be hidden inside the lock. One snapped, flush with the head, revealing a small hollow just below the head.

I test fitted the lock to the plate (it is secured with two heavy duty through bolts which are fine. Then three chrome head slotted screws go into the edge of the lock, hidden by the door edge when closed. One broke on insertion and the another broke on removal.

I was not using an impact driver. I had drilled the correct size pilot hole. I was fitting into seasoned oak but I had lubed the screws with graphite powder (usually I use vaseline in oak but around locks I prefer graphite). I didn't;lt drive in a steel screw first because I thought Ingersoll is a good brand and the lock itself is very well made. I was using the correct size screwdrivers. By hand. I am not Arnold Schwarzenegger.

What is it with screws suppled by manufacturers these days? Please can someone point me to a supplier of sets of stainless steel / chromed screws that are capable of being used. I prefer a set as I don't know what I will have to replace next.

Thanks chaps.

Adrian

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Some of the titanium ones may need to come back out of my leg. Would you like me to save them for you :lol:

I bought some boxes of traditional slotted A2 stainless screws from Screwfix years ago, and have never had one break. No doubt the ones they sell now are lesser, good thing I bought way too many back when.

Is the stuff from Screwsline (https://www.screwsline.co.uk/) any good ? I think I used them last for traditional round head brass screws, again a while ago,

 

[Malc2098]

While I can't add anything to help, I can sympathise in that with stainless screws I have had breakages, too,

I think I remember someone telling me, or reading somewhere, that SS is softer.

 

[novocaine]

While I can't add anything to help, I can sympathise in that with stainless screws I have had breakages, too,

I think I remember someone telling me, or reading somewhere, that SS is softer.

not softer persay, but depending on the grade it can be more brittle or more likely to deform plastically than some steels.

 

[Malc2098]

While I can't add anything to help, I can sympathise in that with stainless screws I have had breakages, too,

I think I remember someone telling me, or reading somewhere, that SS is softer.

not softer persay, but depending on the grade it can be more brittle or more likely to deform plastically than some steels.

I think that's what I meant, what I was told/read.

 

[novocaine]

Sorry, I was being pedantic. sometimes I can't help myself.

shame I have nothing of note to add to the OP question, I don't use SS very often and always use wax when I do. really annoying when a screw snaps, I feel for you.

 

[Woodster]

I’ve had stainless steel screws snap. I’d suggest a well known brand like Spax. I only use use Pozidrive screws as a last resort these days, I much prefer either Torx or Robertson.

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks for the suggestions. I need slotted quite often for aesthetic reasons. As was the case here. Both countersunk flat and countersunk domed. I have torx and square drive in a few sizes, but these lock screws are supposed to be chrome slotted and I want the look to be traditional. In reality they appear to do very little as the lock is actually held onto the plate with two hidden hardened steel bolts that run the full length of the security plate. Anyway, I've fixed it now. As I have a massive supply of random odd screws, I found a handful of old ones with no slot damage, in steel with chrome heads. They've now gone in with vaseline. It has taken me an entire day to fix one lock.

I have written myself a big reminder - never again make outward opening oak double doors. It is very difficult to find high quality locks that get over the rebate issues with an outward opening door pair, especially if the doors are thick and substantial.

Screw hunt on-line tonight as my search today made clear I have very little tucked away that will be useful.

A

 

[MJ80]

Stainless are brittle and snap. I use a normal site then swap them out with the stainless. I've had too many breakages with them. Also whatever is in the packs is usually garbage whatever ironmongery it is.

 

[Woodbloke]

Stainless are brittle and snap.

I've heard that as well so I'm very wary of the things. Marine grade A4 screws might be less prone to snappage but I really don't know the definitive answer - Rob

 

[Trevanion]

I knew a furniture maker who would buy a box of brass or stainless screws and would dump them in a sieve of sorts and dunk the sieve in a pot that had a warm mixture of beeswax and turpentine and then would pull them out and let them cool and dry off, dropped the lump of screws in a bucket and they all came apart but were all now coated in a nice thin layer of wax which aided driving them in exponentially. Most good quality screws like Spax or Reisser have a lubricant of some kind on them.

I use Wurth A2 stainless steel screws but I'm not sure if you can get them in slotted, they're decent quality but are still liable to snap like any other SS screw. If I use a SS screw and if for some reason I take it back out again I don't even try to put it back in because more than likely it will snap on re-entry so I will just put a new one in, they are rather fragile like that.

I've used Accu a few times who have quite a good selection of fasteners, although I haven't tried their wood screws

https://www.accu.co.uk/en/

Accu Slotted Countersunk Screws

Accu Slotted Raised Countersunk Screws

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks. That's a good resource. I usually lube each screw individually as that way I keep work and tools clean. Usually I drive a standard steel screw into the pilot hole first. This was a bit of an odd job as I was fitting a lock through two layers of very hard oak with the grain running at 90 degrees. Because I had to add a lock box to each door to deal with the outward opening aspect. The whole lot came on an off about 4 or 5 times as the fitting was very awkward - the lock body had to clear the other door, but be as close as possible to make the deadbolt work automatically. Very much like fitting an old church door lock.

 

[Mike G]

That pre-driving of another screw idea can be helpful, but sometimes it isn't, particularly with brass screws. Modern screws have a straight shaft, but old-style ones have a tapered shaft. Where I find it works particularly well is with those black slot headed screws you get with blacksmith made ironmongery, where one slip of the screwdriver and you get a nasty bright streak across the head showing off your clumsiness forever. They are generally a modern screw with an old-fashion type of head, and so will follow along quite nicely if you drive another screw in first.

 

[AJB Temple]

I fully agree with that Mike. There is more to screws than people realise and I am as guilty as anyone of banging in super tough Reisser screws with an impact driver. I have a "collection" of brass screws, mostly bought years ago from UK makers for hinge work etc and they are good quality. I also collected over the years a lot of salvaged old (and new old stock) steel screws in various sizes, some with tapered shanks, and I have a box of "cutters". I detest rounded out screw slots, plus I like to clock the slots, and even in my general tools I have a number of old cabinet makers screwdrivers (dirt cheap on auction sites) and make sure they fit the slots perfectly. Also I use a limited set of gun smiths screwdrivers when needed - they are a precision fit and can generate significant torque with no much effort.

Black dome head screws are a problem these days. The ones made in India are usually rubbish and the lots will cam out or even break, even when used with care. I have a few boxes of Brotish made decent ones, but only in small sizes now.

With brass I tend to use candle wax or bees wax (we keep bees) as a lube. In oak though where I am deep driving (eg Timberfix) or where I plan to remove them again I often use vaseline (petroleum jelly) sparingly. I also use it with coach bolts.

Just lately I have begun using quite a few vintage bronze fittings on doors (hunted down on auction sites) and have had to buy silicon bronze screws, which are jolly expensive. (Brass always looks wrong). They invariably come from marine suppliers and the quality of the ones I have bought so far has been excellent.

I like bronze and nickel fittings. My ambition is to find time to do some smaller more quality work when I get some free time.

 

[chataigner]

Not got a suggestion, but a word of sympathy. I too snapped a screw when fitting a lock recently and the bugger snapped below the wood surface so was a pig to get out. Ended up making quite a mess and having to fit a wood plug before I could continue.

Replaced with a Spax non-stainless which I find very tough.

 

[Cabinetman]

There is a company local to me that I use when I need unusual headed stainless steel bolts and other strange bits and bobs, they also do slot head old style stainless steel screws. They claim to have in the past supplied fastenings in exotic materials such as inconel, hastelloy, duplex, and titanium. No I don’t have the foggiest either.
https://www.mjwilsongroup.co.uk/A2-and- ... Fastenings
Hope the link works. Ian

 

[AndyP]

When we buy SS screws are we getting A2 or A4? I understand why A4 are more corrosion resistant but which is stronger? That is less likely to break

 

[Jonathan]

After years of using Spax I've gone over to using these.....https://www.heco-schrauben.com/

Stainless steel screws ate a pet hate of mine, if I have to use one I give them a over sized pilot hole.

Sent from my Redmi Note 9S using Tapatalk

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks all. But in this case I was looking for slot headed tapered screws. I've fixed the lock now and someone has very kindly said he will send me a selection of a couple of hundred stainless slot head in various sizes from a boatyard dispersal.