• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

Small workshop

MY63":1naqqc9p said:
Thanks Roger that explains a lot. Although its minimum angle is 3 degrees with a 209 mm fall from ridge to wall. Should I consider revising my plan or will a 100mm fall be sufficient ?
I understand the junction of the rafter and the wall plate much better now.
Click to expand...

100mm fall is fine.
 
MY63":3lv4aqyp said:
The fact that the over hang carries no weight makes things clearer to me I was having difficulty working out that junction. How deep should the opening (birdsmouth) be in the rafter was a question I was going to ask but if that is where the weight is transferred then I guess it will be the dimension of the wall plate.
Allowing maximum contact and weight transfer.
I am trying to find drawings I have previously seen showing this type of roof detail.
Thanks your help is appreciated :)
Click to expand...

Don't overthink this. There is no weight on this roof, and you could (but shouldn't) get away without a birdsmouth at all. The only time this roof is going to be under any significant downward pressure is when you are up there putting the EPDM down. Most of the time, the biggest force this roof will be resisting is upwards pressure from wind.
 
I have no idea if Sam's PM was telling you not to worry too much about the structure here because this is a tiny roof with plenty big enough timbers......but if it was, he's right. :lol:
 
Mike,
I was half expecting you to chip in at some stage and favour a classic design. :D
My thinking (however erroneous :lol: ) was that such a narrow roof ( 2.4m) with low pitch could almost be achieved with a single rafter say 200 x50 full width with tapers cut on it giving 200 height in the middle and 150 at the eaves. A bit wasteful of timber maybe. That would have zero outward force on the walls.

Next best would be to join and pair of 1.2 m 150 x 50 in the middle to give the slight fall. The overlap would be huge between the two parts allowing 3-4 bolts well spaced. Again I would suggest very little outward force on the walls.

In fact having sketched the second version out, the overlap of a pair of 150 x50 is so huge that it is even more wasteful than cutting a pitch on a single 200 x50.

So my method would be just that but lets not fall out over it :lol:

Sorry Michael you will have to toss a coin to decide between pragmatism and classical professional approach :lol:

Bob
 
The other approach, which may actually be the easiest, is to have one principle truss in the middle (it would require to be a complete truss, with tie, or it could be two triangles cut out of ply), and use purlins (timbers running longitudinally along the roof). The could be 2x2s. You'd then have to insulate below these, and you'd need vents at each gable to allow airflow along the length of the roof between the purlins.
 
You know one of the problems with forums is it is very easy to pick up the language and terms without having the background knowledge to go with it.
I need the easiest to build even after I recover from surgery I have limited use of my right hand. I can get help with heavy stuff but I prefer to work on my own.
I think it would be easier for me to go with the ridge beam my thinking is I can make the front and rear sections with their respective rafters in place. This will allow me to slot the ridge beam in place and then add the other rafters. Possibly using a strip of wood along the bottom of the ridge beam to support them as I fit them.

My intention for this workshop is to make and restore leather goods most of which will be done standing up I am 1.8 m tall is there any way to get a little more headroom.

Thanks
 
Mike G has a very elegant method of building rooves such as the one you're doing and he posted about it in his workshop thread IIRC but damned if I can find it.

EDIT: Found it. Bottom of page 6

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=198&start=125
 
RogerS":3hl7f1gq said:
Mike G has a very elegant method of building rooves such as the one you're doing and he posted about it in his workshop thread IIRC but damned if I can find it.
Click to expand...


When I built my cut roof for the workshop 10 x 3m, I made a couple of jury rigs to support things in roughly the right place and then went up a ladder to finally adjust them. My ridge board had to be in three pieces due to length so i used temp rafters to hold it in place before filling in with real rafters. Fixing with screws is much more forgiving than nails as you can adjust for cock-ups.

Bob
 
It looks to me like this ridge beam would be a matter of a few inches above the wall plate. Simply rest on some offcuts in roughly the right location.
 
9fingers":jxnuva1j said:
RogerS":jxnuva1j said:
Mike G has a very elegant method of building rooves such as the one you're doing and he posted about it in his workshop thread IIRC but damned if I can find it.
Click to expand...


When I built my cut roof for the workshop 10 x 3m, I made a couple of jury rigs to support things in roughly the right place and then went up a ladder to finally adjust them. My ridge board had to be in three pieces due to length so i used temp rafters to hold it in place before filling in with real rafters. Fixing with screws is much more forgiving than nails as you can adjust for cock-ups.

Bob
Click to expand...

:text-+1: about the screws.....and torx heads.....and an impact driver......drives them in well.... and drives them out well if you make a mistake.
 
I don’t know if I have explained my idea clearly I was thinking of making the whole end frame as one piece rafters and all. This would allow me to put all four walls up together and then be able to slot the ridge beam in place when I have help to hand.

As I have had time on my hands so to speak recovery is going really well btw I was thinking about the inside of my workshop (like saying that) I want the bottom end to be a large marking out cutting area full width and as deep as possible 1200 mm with maybe a cutout so I can reach the back wall when necessary. Leaving 2400 mm for everything else I don’t need lots of room in the centre but would like benches either side one for leather and the other for wood. Do I need a solid wood bench for making boxes and light work I currently use a workmate outside ?
I was looking for ideas on Axminster s web site I would like to have one of their aluminium channels set into the leather working side so I can make a straight edge to run along it to help cutting.
I have also thought about using their dog system to do the same on the woodworking side but their guide system is £150 for two rulers with holes and a jig to help you drill straight. Then they sell a predrilled bench top for £100 please tell me if I am missing something essential.
Do I need solid or special timber for dogs or holdfasts to work..
 
You can buy CNC versions of the top much cheaper on the bay I believe.
Dogs can be made from 20mm aluminium or wood dowelling.

Rod
 
Like this one, for example

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MFT-3-Top-Fo ... :rk:2:pf:0

£45 including six dogs.

In fact, Michael, look out for a secondhand Festool MFT (multi-function table). This was my first bench after, like you, using my Workmate.



As you can see in the photo, I subsequently modified it to include a router - you can ignore that stupidly large Incra fence that I bought in a serious error of judgement !

It's also collapsible.
 
Thanks Rod and Roger.
The cnc 'd version from ebay will do fine for me although it may be a little wider than I need I am going to send them a message about size. As soon as I decide what size I require..
Is this moisture resistant mdf suitable for all the bench tops with a suitable frame work underneath or is plywood a more cost effective option again with a frame work supporting it. would 75 mm x 50 mm be sufficient. On the wood working side I have a compound mitre saw and a combined disc belt sander.

I some times make moulds for leather and I struggle with a coping saw to cut the curved part they are made of three pieces of 9 mm plywood glued together. The mould in the picture is 100 mm x 200 mm

2018-11-08_04-12-29 by my0771, on Flickr

I don't make these very often maybe once or twice a year the leather is wet when it goes in and dry when it comes out so the plywood absorbs most of the moisture. When I force the two parts apart they often disintegrate.

Now I have said all of that what machine would help me to make these I was thinking of a band saw or maybe a scroll saw ? help as ever appreciated.
 
MRMDF with further sealing coats of thinned varnish should be fine for benchtops and provide protection against minor contact with wet leather as well as being easier to deal with glue residue. The same goes for ply.
Seal both top and bottom and edges for best stability. MRMDF is Resistant to and not Proof against moisture absorption. 75x50 frame should be fine too- 75mm vertical under the bench and front to back supports every 600mm or so. consider 50-75mm overhang of the bench surface over the frame for ease of clamping.

I picked up a job lot of leftover kitchen worktops. 40mm thick with formica for some of my bench tops which works well too.

I would think that 27mm is at the upper limit of most scroll saws and that with your box work too, a bandsaw as big as you can fit in - on wheels maybe, would be the most versatile tool for your work. Maybe something that can tension a 3/4 blade would enable veneer cutting for boxes too.

hth
Bob
 
I have to be honest I would be at the budget end for either bandsaw or scroll saw these are my first options
Axminster have a store near me now so I would prefer to buy it from them unless there is a better option that is recommended.

https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-c ... saw-105092
Not knowing anything about bandsaws could this cope with the tight radius required for my moulds I take it a thinner blade might be an option.

https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-c ... saw-105250

I mentioned the scroll saw as it claims a 50 mm depth of cut but i understand what they claim and what is actually possible.

I am going to order the bench top tomorrow as I can cut it down myself if needed and I can rig it up tempoary for building the shop.

I was planning on edgeing the ply with a hardwood to give me a good edge to work to. I also need to fit a piece of granite and glass into the leatherworing side.
Kitchen wortops are a great idea 640 mm will leave me space to turn around in the middle.
 
Just in case anyone is curious about what the moulds are for this is a sample of what I make. It is an armoured case with a hidden Kydex lining for strength and lined in suede. The fountain pens in the picture are hand made in Japan by Danitrio this model is called the Genkai they take months to make.
These are not my pens :D

IMG_2728 by my0771, on Flickr

Googling these pens for prices is not for the faint of heart and is best done seated although they could be described as mid price when compared others. :D
 
Oh Michael, Michael, Michael....what have you done ? :(

I had absolutely no idea that Axminster had a shop up here ! I have been in blissful ignorance all this time. And now I'll have to visit it tomorrow as I have a morning appointment at the RVI and so will have the car !

Regarding your bandsaw, if you only want to use it for the mould a couple of times a year then it would be cheaper for you to jump in the car and drive down to me and I can do it for you on my bandsaw. Or even post it.

But a man should never get in the way of another from purchasing tools :lol:

That bandsaw will be fine. I have had the earlier version - an AWSB2 -for ten years or more and it's a little cracker. I have had much larger bandsaws in my time and they've all been sold at some point or another. Not this one. You do need to do two things though. First, throw away the blade that comes with it a usually they are naff. Then ring Ian at Tuffsaws, tell him what you want to cut, curve radius etc and he will advise you. His blades are excellent and he is very helpful.
 
Sorry Roger be careful which address you go to as it has recently moved from a retail park to an industrial estate. You will find a frozen food store in their old shop :D That would be really disappointing.

I did try looking for a used Festool mft as you suggested but they were all mega bucks as they say, I did see one in Kendal on gumtree but I cant find it again.

I noticed the ebay one you linked to also has a beech ply version but without the free dogs which is best.
 
When looking for machines do consider used ones of a quality make. You will get better value for money generally than buying new.

I've only ever bought one woodworking machine new my tablesaw and whilst I'm very happy with it, if I had my time again I'd buy a used startrite or Wadkin in a heartbeat.
Bob
 
MY63":1zry2krt said:
....

I noticed the ebay one you linked to also has a beech ply version but without the free dogs which is best.
Click to expand...

I don't think there's much to choose between them - assuming that any MDF one is MRMDF. But if the MDF one is Medite MRMDF then I'd go for that.
 
9fingers":utfl6una said:
When looking for machines do consider used ones of a quality make. You will get better value for money generally than buying new.

I've only ever bought one woodworking machine new my tablesaw and whilst I'm very happy with it, if I had my time again I'd buy a used startrite or Wadkin in a heartbeat.
Bob
Click to expand...

Hi Bob I would consider a used machine as you suggest although my lack of knowledge would be a disadvantage. The Axminster one is not available until next month.

Roger yes it is Medite MDF I plan to order it tomorrow.
 
Several people on here who would be willing to help you. Make use of the members map and maybe find some one near to one for sale to look at it for you?

Look out for Kity, Elu and Inca machines (amongst others). Highly thought of and do come up from time to time. Set up some ebay searches for models that interest you and they will email when one gets listed.
Cast iron tables are a must. Aluminium one are invariably twisted.
Usually SH price plus a few hundred miles of fuel will get you a better deal than new.

Don't forget that a second hand machine can usually be sold on for what you paid for it when it comes the time to upgrade. You can never do that with a new machine.

Certainly Tuffsaws are amongst the best if not the best blades and personal service from Ian John is second to none. He has built his business on reputation in the forums.

Bob
 
9fingers":1j216h6e said:
Several people on here who would be willing to help you. Make use of the members map and maybe find some one near to one for sale to look at it for you?

Look out for Kity, Elu and Inca machines (amongst others). Highly thought of and do come up from time to time. Set up some ebay searches for models that interest you and they will email when one gets listed.
Cast iron tables are a must. Aluminium one are invariably twisted.
Usually SH price plus a few hundred miles of fuel will get you a better deal than new.

Don't forget that a second hand machine can usually be sold on for what you paid for it when it comes the time to upgrade. You can never do that with a new machine.
.....

Bob
Click to expand...

The drawback with that approach up here, Bob, is that even with a radius of 100 miles, the number of items that come up are few and far between. I just had a quick look and found nothing suitable for Michael. Of course, if he's not in a desperate hurry then your suggestion for setting up a search is excellent and one I've used a lot.
 
One thing to bear in mind, Michael, is the distance between the blade and the frame as that will determine the largest piece you can put in there, and manoeuvre round the bends.
 
Gents, I read you talking about buying 2H on gtree and bay.

It is worth a look in Facebook Marketplace. I have bought and sold a few things there recently. Clearances of older people (now deceased) often crop up by their families.

And in all these online 'shops', regular checking is the secret to finding and actually buying something before someone else snaffles it. Sunday night is a good time. I got a couple of nice clamps last night for £20. Just off out to pick them up.
 
Malc2098":3tecc8tr said:
Gents, I read you talking about buying 2H on gtree and bay.

It is worth a look in Facebook Marketplace. I have bought and sold a few things there recently. Clearances of older people (now deceased) often crop up by their families.

And in all these online 'shops', regular checking is the secret to finding and actually buying something before someone else snaffles it. Sunday night is a good time. I got a couple of nice clamps last night for £20. Just off out to pick them up.
Click to expand...

But you need to be a member of Faecebook, I believe.
 
RogerS":2ijs5od3 said:
Malc2098":2ijs5od3 said:
Gents, I read you talking about buying 2H on gtree and bay.

It is worth a look in Facebook Marketplace. I have bought and sold a few things there recently. Clearances of older people (now deceased) often crop up by their families.

And in all these online 'shops', regular checking is the secret to finding and actually buying something before someone else snaffles it. Sunday night is a good time. I got a couple of nice clamps last night for £20. Just off out to pick them up.
Click to expand...

But you need to be a member of Faecebook, I believe.
Click to expand...


You're a bad boy, but you're quite right, Roger. I was forgetting that some of my contemporaries are not yet connected to the outside world by social meeja! But then what is WH2, if not SM?! :)

I find FB a better platform to message friends and family and share/forward files etc than texting and I can do it from phone, tablet or desktop.

Oh, and BTW, the Marketplace platform is a little less formal than GTree in that most sales/purchases down here in the far SW take place relatively locally (up to a couple of towns away) and you get chatting to your vendor who then says what else are you looking for. Today's vendor is closing down his 'shop and among other things has a pillar drill for sale, better spec than my current one and at a good price. I've sold more stuff successfully on FB than I have on GT.
 
MY63":1cmbno5o said:
Sorry Roger be careful which address you go to as it has recently moved from a retail park to an industrial estate. ...

.....
Click to expand...

LOL...SatNav really got its knickers in a twist. Wanted me to turn into the A1 roadworks! Then it got me to the Tyne Tunnel Trading Estate but then had me running around in circles. So I drove into the first convenient side road and Googled where the store was. Hamar Close...mmmm...sounds familiar, he thought, isn't that the road I've just driven up..he thought...looking up to see he'd parked outside Axminster :oops:

Credit card burning a hole in my pocket but all I came away with was some new Titebond....even though I have a lot left I see little point in risking a project for the sake of a few quid....some application brushes and some rare earth magnets. I looked at their Trade thicknesser and came away very underwhelmed...so obviously lower end Chinese.
 
The new super three tier roundabout on the A19 is causing some issues I think it is due to finish early next year.
I was near there myself at the Silverlink (retail park) Christmas shopping with my son.
The Tyne Tunnel trading estate has an odd layout to say the least. I feel really bad as I could have directed you to it had I thought.
I quite like Axminster they have a resident turner (Walter) on a Tuesday morning he made some custom oak leatherworking tools on the lathe for me. I made him a belt in return.
There are usually 12 to 15 people there actually I might pop in tomorrow and see if anyone knows of a used bandsaw for sale.
 
Looks to be ex school/industry but surprisingly clean and tidy for that.

From what I found it was last made 1998 so possibly the design dates back to the days of DW taking over Elu designs which is a strong positive (guesswork!) Limited spares support now according to DW

It is possibly at the top of the price range for a S/H machine but if it runs well and the tyres & guides are good and nothing broken might be worth it. If you are happy with it offer £150 and see the reaction.

If the seller offers extra blades by all means take them but don't associate them with much value or a bargaining point. Useful for learning with until new ones turn up from Tuffsaws.

Good Luck

Bob
 
Thanks Bob
I must admit I am not sure about spending that sort of money on a machine that is at least 20 years old.
Thanks for your advice
Michael
 
MY63":29yp5vmu said:
Thanks Bob
I must admit I am not sure about spending that sort of money on a machine that is at least 20 years old.
Thanks for your advice
Michael
Click to expand...

I think age has to be interpreted with care. Something 20 years old is possibly designed 25-30 years ago before the accountants drove engineering decisions.
On something as simple a band saw, there will not have been many if any technology improvements in that time. Unless the machine looks like it has been used heavily day in day out for 20 years, which this one does not, I don't think age is an issue quite possibly is an advantage over modern Chaiwanese imports.

Bob
 
My thoughts,
Ring seller see if you can take an example of want you want to do and see if you can test his machine doing it. Of course if he does not have a sharp blade any testing might not be a good indication.
Also check other auction sites and see if any similar models have been sold and for what price.
 
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