Table Saw

[Commander]

After a long wait I was able to welcome a new addition to my workshop!



I'm very excited by the new possibilities this opens up to me! It seems to be a Grizzly G1022Z (probably a clone, but the images look very similar), I got it 2nd hand for a bargain, so it does need a bit of attention, but it seems to be designed to last with most parts being serviceable. It also looks to be much more sturdy and built to a higher standard then the newly available entry level saws (and at a fraction of the price might I add).

I will first have to give it a good clean, and then make sure the blade is properly aligned, but I'm very excited to get going! :eusa-dance:

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Mike G]

This is all looking very promising, Erich. That's a nice Stanley plane..........is the sole flat? If not, a bit of work with some sandpaper glued to a sheet of glass will sort it.

Now, the table saw. These smaller lightweight saws frighten me a bit. They tip very easily when pushing larger pieces of timber through them, so my suggestion would be either to bolt it down to the floor, or to build some sort of low level shelf at the bottom of the legs and load that up with concrete blocks.

Oh, and you do realise you are now on a very slippery slope indeed? All that sawdust will need collecting, so you'll be looking at an extraction system before you know it. The sound of a shaving "whooshing" sweetly off a piece of nice wood will be seductive, and you'll be looking for more planes. I'm sorry to tell you that there is no cure......

 

[Commander]

Thanks for the tip Mike! I'm pretty sure the plane is in good nick, but I will make sure, and if it is not I have a great tip for solving the problem!

The saw is much heavier than I expected and feels pretty sturdy, but I can imagine that it could be a problem, my idea was to actually try and build it into a small cabinet of sorts. I want lockable caster wheels on the bottom to make it a bit easier to move around as my space is very limited, this will also enable me to add a table extension and some packing space. I could easily add an extension to the back which should make it more stable plus add more weight to the whole assembly.

And yes the bug has bitten me! I stroll through the local tool supplier isles regularly making my list of must have items longer! :lol:

 

[Wizard9999]

Must have missed the post on the plane in the run up to Christmas, it looks great. I recently found a lot of old inherited tools at the back of my shed, taken from my late father's house before I got into woodwork, but nothing as nice looking as that!

Ironically, if I understand Mike's point correctly, the fact your new toy is well build may actually make the risk greater, the problem is probably the high centre of gravity relative to the over all mass (come on Bob and others, must be some engineering formula for this, but at least give me credit for using mass and not weight :lol: ). So I think your idea of a cabinet around it is a good one, plus it will give useful storage (though more tools sounds a more appealing form of ballast than concrete blocks :lol: ). I recall lots of examples of the sort of thing I think you mean YouTube, but if you haven't seen it this one sticks out i my mind...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jgfXn9xJSc0

Maybe a bit big, but it gets you a router table as well .

Terry.

 

[Phil]

Erich, that looks very much like my Rockwell Contractors saw.

I made a mobile base for it. A bit OTT and belt and braces.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=763&p=11733&hilit=mobile+base#p11733

It is very heavy to move even on wheels.

Cheers
Phil

 

[will1983]

Hi Commander some great projects there, I particularly like the bed cabinet design, how do you connect the different parts of it together though?

RE; your new table saw, its not a bad idea to build a bigger base for your saw as you can incorporate all sorts of things into it, ie router table, storage drawers, additional sockets etc. The great advantage of this is you increase the side table and outfeed table area to make it easier to manage larger sheet materials. One of these can even be designed to function as a downdraft table for sanding and assembly operations.

One small detail i have noted from a number of your projects are that you seem to relie entirely on the shear strength of the screws at the 90 degree corners. When I design cabinets I try to ensure that the horizontal members sit on top of the side (vertical) members. That way the whole end of the horizontal parts panels are supported along their full length by the side peices, not just at the screw locations. This can be particularly important when using a material like MDF which has the majority of its strength at the faces with a weaker internal material.

Will

 

[Rod]

I had a Clarke saw when I first started buying kit and incorporated into a Norms portable table saw top.
Pity you don't live nearer as you could have it as I no longer need it [emoji3]

Please ignore the rubbish!
For storage and moving around, it's upended and sits on 4 castors but in use, on a pair of sturdy saw benches.

Rod

 

[Commander]

Thanks for all the replies guys!

@ Terry, you are indeed correct, I tried pushing it over yesterday just to see how easy it would go, and even though it was not extremely unstable, it was still very possible to push over, and once it starts going it will be difficult to stop and a right mess if it does go over... I watched the video you suggested and I like the idea a lot, seems much better than trying to mount the legs directly.

@Phil, it is possibly very similar or the same, the base certainly looks the same. I also found your tread useful, I think I will rather go the route of removing the legs and building a cabinet with an extended table and some added storage. Does your saw perform well?

@Will, thanks for the compliment, the bed works really well and is holding up under use (its about 3.5 years old now). The elcheepo slides are taking a beating, so I will probably have to redo them at some future date.
Thanks for the point on the screws, I usually go from the perspective of hiding the screws from view, which may not always be the strongest design. I plan on using more advance joining techniques in the future (as my skill set grows) so I will hopefully have to rely on screws less!

@ Rod, Thanks for the offer, that would have been great!

I finished cleaning up my garage yesterday and had a quick look at the saw, it will definitely need a good cleaning and a tune up as the blade is slightly out of alignment. The inner-workings are also very dirty from years of use, so a good clean should do the trick!

 

[Phil]

@Phil, it is possibly very similar or the same, the base certainly looks the same. I also found your tread useful, I think I will rather go the route of removing the legs and building a cabinet with an extended table and some added storage. Does your saw perform well?

Erich, it is a very nice saw and extremely sturdy on it's legs.

Building yours on/into a cabinet is a very good idea

I only use mine for ripping. All other cuts are on the Dewalt RAS.

Cheers
Phil

 

[Commander]

Thanks Phil, that's good to hear, this will be my go-to saw for most work as I don't own a RAS or sliding mitre saw. I plan on building some sleds and jigs for it as I need them.

@Will, apologies, I somehow missed your question about how the cabinets of the bed fit together, I bolted the 4 main parts (3 cabinets and the slats) together with some galvanised (M10 IIRC) hardware and large washers. It works very well and keeps the bed very sturdy, it should also make disassembly a breeze!

 

[Commander]

On Saturday afternoon I was eventually able to start breaking down the saw for cleaning and adjustment. It was fairly dirty after years of use. The blade was also out of alignment and was catching on the insert, which meant it was not cutting parallel to the mitre slot, the stopper for 90 degrees/vertical was also not in the right place. Here are some pics of the process:


Wings and motor removed.


Some close-ups of the accumulated dust befor i removed the saw body.


legs and saw body removed showing the inner workings. You can see I have already started pushing out the tilt adjusting shaft.


A close up of the trunnion, everything still looks good and with little sign of ware!


The blade carrier.


The blade carrier after clean up. it is also at this point where I made a schoolboy error, the parts were stuck together with age, so I used a small ball-peen hammer to gently tap on end of the shaft, after tapping 2 or 3 times I remembered that I was supposed to put on the nut to avoid damaging the threads. Unfortunately I did damage the threads a bit, which then got a bit worse when I threaded the nut back on... :| . It does baffle me that the amount of thread available for the nut is very minimal. I did luckily manage to get everything back together!


Look carefully at this photo, the shaft on the left has the nut removed but the trunnion still in place, as you can see the nut barely engages even when the trunnion is fully seated.


The table top is cast and milled, it is by far the heaviest part of the whole machine.

I managed to finish reassembly yesterday and I'm very happy with the results. I have to say it was a bit nerve wrecking starting the saw for the first time, images of the blade catching somewhere or breaking loose springs to mind, luckily everything worked perfectly!


Making sawdust!




Taking into consideration that the current blade is pretty old and slightly warped I'm very happy with the cuts I have been able to achieve so far. I still need to replace the drive belt (its a bit out of round causing vibration) and then buy at least 2 new blades (one for cross cuts and one for ripping), but all things considered I'm very happy with my purchase! bscene-drinkingcheers:

 

[AndyP]

Erich, I can't see a riving knife on that saw? Does it have one?

There are a lot of projects within this thread. It would be easier to follow if you started a new thread for each different project.

 

[Phil]

Erich, looks like a good job.

Erich, I can't see a riving knife on that saw? Does it have one?

My saw has the riving knife and the blade cover as one unit which bolts onto the back just above the motor.

30 second job to loosen and take off.

Cheers
Phil

 

[AndyP]

Erich, looks like a good job.

Erich, I can't see a riving knife on that saw? Does it have one?

My saw has the riving knife and the blade cover as one unit which bolts onto the back just above the motor.

30 second job to loosen and take off.

Cheers
Phil

That's good.

 

[Phil]

Erich, looks like a good job.

Erich, I can't see a riving knife on that saw? Does it have one?

My saw has the riving knife and the blade cover as one unit which bolts onto the back just above the motor.

30 second job to loosen and take off.

Cheers
Phil

That's good.

Yes, but looking at the pic with the timber on the table top I cannot see a blade cover in place?

Cheers
Phil

 

[Mike G]

Nice to clean up and re-align everything, but I reckon the biggest improvement you could make to that machine's performance is to invest in a new blade. Oh, and that really is pot: kettle, because my RAS is struggling with a really awful old blade.

 

[Commander]

Thanks for the comments guys!
Andy, I decided to make an "all in one" tread for all my projects, but perhaps that is not such a great idea, does anyone else have a comment on this? I could always start new threads for my new projects going forward...
The saw does have a blade cover that bolts to the back as Phil said, it still needs to be cleaned, but in my (albeit limited) experience it is more of a hindrance than a help. I will however do some experimentation with it once it is cleaned up to see if I can get it to work properly. I do have a very healthy respect for the saw (as well as all my other tools) as I know how quickly things can go wrong in the workshop.

Thanks Phil, I'm very happy with the outcome!

Mike, I do plan on replacing the blade in short order (January is not a month known for spare cash though!)

On a side note, the rails on which the fence mounts were missing from the saw when I bought it, so I'm wondering if it will be worth while trying to source replacement parts. As far as I can tell it is just round tubing +- 25-30mm in diameter (Phil, maybe you can comment as I expect the tubes on your saw will be the same?) Alternative I can either buy piping of the same diameter and attempt to make my own, or set out to build a new fence that clamps directly to the table. I do plan on extensively using the saw sleds of various sizes, but a decent fence will always be useful.

P.S. is "sleds" the proper word in this context?? Chrome and word seem to be in disagreement, to my ear it sounds right, but I'm not a native speaker, so I'm very possibly wrong... :?

 

[Phil]

Erich, some details on the Rockwell

Rockwell 9” Contractors Saw

The pipe for the fence is 28.5mm outside diameter. (1.14” ??)
The length is 800mm

There are two shaped mounting pieces which bolts the pipe to the saw.
One pipe front and back.

The fence tightening unit and the front pipe.

The fence running across the table.
I have three bolt on fences which attach to the main fence (one on at the moment)

The two mounting pieces

Cheers
Phil

 

[Phil]

The saw does have a blade cover that bolts to the back as Phil said, it still needs to be cleaned, but in my (albeit limited) experience it is more of a hindrance than a help. I will however do some experimentation with it once it is cleaned up to see if I can get it to work properly. I do have a very healthy respect for the saw (as well as all my other tools) as I know how quickly things can go wrong in the workshop.

The only time I saw without the cover is when the stock is too thick to fit under the cover.
(you should try ripping on the RAS!)

Cheers
Phil

 

[Commander]

Thanks for the quick reply Phil, I have all the mounting hardware, I really just need the pipe. My fence does look a little different, but the concept is much the same. It would be nice to get an official replacement part as it would have the proper measurement on it. I do suspect that a official replacement part would be hard to find and very pricey.
As for the RAS, I have never worked on one, so not too sure what I'm missing out on (or not!)

 

[AndyP]

Thanks for the comments guys!
Andy, I decided to make an "all in one" tread for all my projects, but perhaps that is not such a great idea, does anyone else have a comment on this? I could always start new threads for my new projects going forward...

That is the norm erich. A new thread for each project makes things a lot easier for everyone to follow. The table saw section of this thread I will attempt to move the the Machines and Power Toolery section. Hold on to your hat.

 

[Phil]

as it would have the proper measurement on it. I do suspect that a official replacement part would be hard to find and very pricey.

I have never used the markings on the pipe. Use a steel ruler at the blade tooth and then just move the fence up to the ruler.
Once tightened, another double check and then the big square to check the 90 degrees.

As for the RAS, I have never worked on one, so not too sure what I'm missing out on (or not!)

The RAS in speed and noise makes the Rockwell look like an amature!

Cheers
Phil

 

[Commander]

Thanks for moving the posts Andy, I will keep to the norm going forward and apologies for the inconvenience!

You make a good point Phil, the ruler method should be more accurate. I also had a closer look at my fence and it doesn't seem all that useful or user-friendly, it is basically an aluminium extrusion with 2 separate knobs for clamping onto the 2 rails, so it will turn into a bit of a to-do to move it around. At this point I'm seriously considering just making my own.

I have started designing the cabinet/trolley for the saw and will post pic's once I have a working CAD model.

 

[Phil]

You make a good point Phil, the ruler method should be more accurate. I also had a closer look at my fence and it doesn't seem all that useful or user-friendly, it is basically an aluminium extrusion with 2 separate knobs for clamping onto the 2 rails, so it will turn into a bit of a to-do to move it around. At this point I'm seriously considering just making my own.

The two knobs on mine work well, the big one on the front pipe and the small one tightens on the back pipe.

If you want to pop around an look let me know.

Cheers
Phil

 

[Commander]

Thanks Phil, that would be great, I have sent you a PM.

 

[Phil]

Thanks Phil, that would be great, I have sent you a PM.

Received and e-mail sent with address and contact details.

Cheers
Phil

 

[Commander]

I started work on my first small sled, not too much to show yet, but I was able to make the 2 rails that slide in the mitre slots. They fit very snugly, so that should make for some accurate cuts.

P.S. it was great meeting you Phil! Had a nice chat and picked up some useful tips!

 

[Phil]

Erich, don't fprget the pics of the sled making!

It was good to meet you and put a face to a name.

Cheers
Phil

 

[Commander]

Hey Phil, likewise! I have had time to work on the sled (among other things) on the weekend. (Check the tread I will add to the "Machines & Power Toolery" section, I will need your help soon!)

I built my sled with the sled made by Matthias Wandel in mind, the dimensions are not the same, but the idea and design is very similar. First step was making the guide rails for the sled, I cut them roughly to size with the table saw. I used a piece of Emboya hard wood I got from my father in law. I used a hand plane to trim it down to size (naturally I tried to get the fit as tight as possible with the strip still being able to slide comfortably). I then glued and screw the strip to the melamine base (I had a piece left over from making extra shelves for the kitchen cabinets).
After that I cut the melamine base in half using the rail in the mitre slot to make sure the cut is exactly parallel to the rail. The next step was to plane the rear fence so it is flat, I looked for a piece of 114x38 that was not warped too badly and planed it by hand until it was square and had no wobbles left (a power planer would have been better, but I don't have access to one, yet!)


Here I am glueing the rear fence on.

I did the same thing with the front fence making sure both fences are parallel and square to the blade.






Here is the final product, I have already setup the sled for cutting the bridle joints for my saw base, hence the depth stop and the stopper to keep the board in place. I will post some more photos after I have removed the blocks, I just want to make all the cuts first! (I got a bit carried away after finishing the sled!)

*edit - Here are 2 more pics of the sled without the bridle joint jig clamped in place.

 

[Commander]

Here are a couple of quick photos of the beginnings of the bridle joints I intend to use for the saw stand frame. I used the sled to make multiple parallel cuts and then knocked it out with a hammer and did some very light trimming. Once I made the slot half of the joints I will fine tune for size. (lumber size is 114x38, so it should be nice and strong!)


Cutting boards to size with my home made square and circular saw.

 

[Commander]

I also took a moment (after sharpening my chisels and itching to try them out) to make a push stick. I know the more conventional push sticks are made of flat stock cut to shape with a band saw or the like, but I had a piece of brandering laying around and no band saw, so thought I would give it a try and see how it turns out.


First I rounded the edges to make for a comfortable grip.



Then I cut some notches in the front end to help hook on to the work piece.





I added some shallow finger grooves to aid grip.

I finished by sanding it down, masking the front tip (to avoid transferring paint to the work piece when pushing it through the blade) and painted it a silly colour (to avoid misplacing it amongst the rest of the stock!)
Since I have been using the sled I haven't really had a chance to try it out, but I'm sure it will work well enough.

 

[AndyP]

You might like to try and find a suitable piece of clear shatter proof Perspex or similar to place between the front and back of your sled about 3 inches wide and positioned directly over the blade will prevent projectiles coming flying up at you.

 

[Commander]

You might like to try and find a suitable piece of clear shatter proof Perspex or similar to place between the front and back of your sled about 3 inches wide and positioned directly over the blade will prevent projectiles coming flying up at you.

Thats a good idea Andy, thanks for the tip!

 

[Commander]

I had some time last weekend to carry on working on the frame for the table saw base. The next challenge was to make the other halves of the bridle joints, I tried a couple of different methods with varying levels of success. First I tried cutting the slot required up right on the table saw, this worked fairly well except for the fact that the slot was much too shallow.


P.S. I did make sure not to cut into my clam, that would have been a disaster!



The fit was fairly tight, just way too shallow.

I then set about clamping a make shift fence in place with a stopper so as to prevent me from cutting the slots too deep. The problem with this was that I currently don't have a proper fence so I had to clamp a piece of wood in place. This worked fairly well, but due to the clamping my accuracy suffered a bit...



I then set out chopping the waste out with a chisel. At first it was a bit of a struggle, but as I got into it it went well. In the end I'm happy with the result, if you ignore the fact that my table saw cuts weren't nearly as good as they aught to be...




In the end most of the joints fit fairly well, one is pretty bad though...






At least it is square!



The dry fit looks good.



Last step was the glue up, this turned out to be a lot harder than I imagined. The glue also took long to dry, probably due to the size of the joint and the excess play on some of the joints. I also made some thin spacers and wedges to try and take up the slack in the joints.






After taking off the clamps the next day the frame seems nice and sturdy. If I ever do this again I will most likely just use half lap joints. Considering that these joints are 114mm x 114mm they should be strong enough and it would be MUCH simpler to get right. That being said, I did learn a lot in making these!

Next step will be cleaning up all the excess and filling the remaining holes, then sanding down before adding the rest of the frame.

 

[DaveL]

Making spacers was a good idea but I would recommend that you don't use end grain. Glue holds best long grain to long grain. I have a few bits of veneer that I cut shims from or if a thicker bit I'd required I slice from the side of a board.
It's good to see your progress, please keep the pictures coming.

 

[Rod]

Thanks for showing us, warts and all but to be honest the joints are pretty terrible.
Before continuing making anymore panels I would strongly suggest you practice making accurate cuts with your saw and make a better "tenoning" type jig or a jig that locates and holds your timber in place better.
These joints should roughly follow the "third" rule and the shoulders should really be the same size so the "tenon" sits in the middle.
One thing that's occurred to me - are you allowing for the saws thickness when you cut?
Keep practicing.

Rod

 

[Commander]

Thanks for the comments guys!

@Dave, in hindsight I should not have used end grain, I had a long block that I just cut slithers off of, but I should have cut a smaller block, turned 90 degrees and then cut the slithers.

@Rod, to be honest I was pretty disappointed with the end result and almost decided against posting at all, however I thought that it could perhaps encourage other beginers to see some less than perfect work. I think my biggest problem was the lack of a fence. The clamped block would tend to move as the clamps loosened due to vibration from rhe saw. Once that is sorted it should go much better. I did manage to get two of the joints tight enough to neccesetate knocking them in with a hammer, they were unfortunatly not perfectly even, which resulted in some gaps. With regards to spacing I tried making the centre tennon slightly thicker (16mm out of 38mm) so as to give it a bit more strength.

 

[Rod]

Well I hope I didn't come across too hard you were very brave to show the results?
Stability and accuracy are the main points.
I learnt to do them by hand which improves hand held saw skills.
You saw each cut vertically from each side but only part way on the opposite side IE at a sloping angle, so following the easily seen marked cut lines, top and facing side.
Turn round and repeat then cut down to the shoulder once both sides have been cut to full length.
Cut off shoulders square or chisel out depending on the piece.
Much easier to do than trying to instruct in words.

Nowadays I use a bandsaw which is much easier to control as you have better support for the timber.

Rod

 

[Commander]

Well I hope I didn't come across too hard you were very brave to show the results?
Stability and accuracy are the main points.
I learnt to do them by hand which improves hand held saw skills.
You saw each cut vertically from each side but only part way on the opposite side IE at a sloping angle, so following the easily seen marked cut lines, top and facing side.
Turn round and repeat then cut down to the shoulder once both sides have been cut to full length.
Cut off shoulders square or chisel out depending on the piece.
Much easier to do than trying to instruct in words.

Nowadays I use a bandsaw which is much easier to control as you have better support for the timber.

Rod

Not at all! They are bad, and to pretend otherwise would not fool anyone! Thanks for the tip, I will give hand sawing a whirl next time!

 

[will1983]

Fair play to you mate, we have all done work we're not that proud of in the past. God knows I've made some bloody awful messes in the past! The joints might be a bit rough but at the end of the day, this is just a stand for your table saw, not fine furniture. Also you'll be surprised how much better they'll look when you've cleaned them up.

A little tip for you in making bridal joints is, to aviod having to chisel out so much waste you can just drill through the female section with the tangent of the hole level with the bottom of the socket. All thats left then is to trim the remaining rounded corners square.

Also if you are not fully confident in the accuracy you can acheive with the table saw yet just use it to remove the bulk of the waste material then use a nice sharp chisel to pare away to your marks, this is quieter (easier to concentrate) slower (more time to think) and has less potential for missing digits if it goes wrong!

Another thing to consider is how are you marking out where to cut, pencil or marking knife? A sharp marking knife really makes the world of difference.

Keep it up mate, I like reading your posts.
Will