Time for a new bench (dog holes)

[Lons]

I don't think it will surprise anyone when I say that I won't be doing this. The last thing I want with a bench is "bling".

Exactly, it's a workbench.
Will you put a finish on the bench Mike or leave it raw? Mine gets an occasional wipe of Danish oil which seems to make it easier to get glue and other gunk off.

 

[AJB Temple]

I don't think it will surprise anyone when I say that I won't be doing this. The last thing I want with a bench is "bling". Further, the breadboard ends and the boards are designed to move independently. Gluing something in between them would potentially spoil that plan, and lead to the potential for splitting the benchtop.[/quote]

:lol: I was just fishing. Dangle the hook and occasionally they bite. Fully get the movement point of course. But on such a quality build I would want to find an aesthetically pleasing solution.

I've always worried about this issue of not fully seating when using fox wedges and so have probably undersized the wedges whenever I've done it. In my case I used them when framing the outdoor kitchen as I was worried about wind lift with the open roof. A professional framer I know suggested using softwood wedges in hardwood M&T as they could be "driven" harder when pulling up a frame with ratchet straps. I wasn't convinced by that as the wedge needs to be hard enough to push the tenon outwards, so I did a four way using oak.

 

[Mike G]

......Will you put a finish on the bench Mike or leave it raw? Mine gets an occasional wipe of Danish oil which seems to make it easier to get glue and other gunk off.

It'll stay raw. And stand by this evening for another decision which is likely to be a bit controversial.

 

[Pete Maddex]

I used to put teak oil on mine.

Pete

 

[9fingers]

Some sort of finish is useful to minimise excess glue/spills from sticking the job to the bench top.

Bob

 

[toolsntat]

......Will you put a finish on the bench Mike or leave it raw? Mine gets an occasional wipe of Danish oil which seems to make it easier to get glue and other gunk off.

It'll stay raw. And stand by this evening for another decision which is likely to be a bit controversial.

Looking a right chunky monkey Mike, well done.
Looking forward to seeing that "M.G.2024" scrawled into it with a Stanley knife :eusa-whistle:
Cheers, Andy

 

[Cabinetman]

I’ve always just slapped a bit of sanding sealer or shellac on mine, none slippery. But obviously it’s yours to do exactly what you want with, including controversial! Can’t wait.

 

[Mike G]

Some sort of finish is useful to minimise excess glue/spills from sticking the job to the bench top.

Bob

In theory, I have a finishing bench on the other side of the workshop. Unfortunately, it is crowded with stuff.

 

[Mike G]

After de-clamping, the main task today was to flatten the top and get it fixed in place. It didn't sit completely flat initially, so I flipped it over and "backed out" at the point where it rocked. A liberal coat of wax crayon on the frames gave me a clue where I needed to plane:



Once it was sitting OK I screwed the apron on:



......then concentrated on flattening the top. I approached this in the same way as I would flattening a single board: first, winding sticks, then a straight edge along the length, then scrub planing, and then.....:







Every now and then I rubbed the aluminium channel on it to reveal the high spots:





When I was getting close I filled the old board, and that little gap from yesterday:



Once I had it flat (about 2 hours worth of hand planing), I re-sharpened the number 6 and scrub-planed the entirety again. If finish-scrub-planing is a thing, then that's what I did.

Now, let me tell you about something that has been bothering me for days. I've been working in an ad hoc way on the top when it was just individual boards, and the planed surface has been ridiculously slippery. Bits of wood skid around all over the place, and I have pondered long and hard how to get over this. Would a finish help? Would toothing the surface with a toothing plane, or dragging a handsaw all over it, do the trick? Mentally, I was all set to do the latter.

Anyway, the more I scrubbed at 45 degrees to the grain, the more I liked the finish it gave me. If I went 45 degrees from the grain direction, it was still a bit too smooth, but if I went 45 degrees against the grain, it gave a really, really nice texture. So, chaps and chappesses, that is how my bench is going to be:



I'll see if I can capture it a bit better than that, but it is pretty plain to see in real life. It won't be everyone's cup of tea, but hey, it's my bench.

Next on the agenda was the shelf behind the bench, and the first task was to move this socket which was in the way:





Here's a couple of pieces of "standard" grade redwood from Huws Gray in Sudbury. The "Premier" grade is better still:



Those are to suppoprt the shelf behind the bench. I took this photo just for Andy T, to show one of the advantages of pairs of bench-hooks:



Here you can see one batten screwed to the wall, and the other about to be screwed to the back of the hindmost board of the bench. The benchtop was still free to move, to allow me access for fixing this batten:



Here you can see the vice re-fitted. It was more of a schlep than you'd think, and involved going in to the house to wash my hands two or three times because oil and wood aren't a great combination:



I sat the shelf loosely in place, and will work out what goes where tomorrow:



It's starting to feel like a bench:



At the other end of the bench there is going to be a tool-well. I had rebated the back edge of the beech board previously, and today I ran a matching rebate in the under-edge of the shelf-support batten, which allowed a piece of ply to slide in:





There's a bit more work to do in that area, so we'll come back to that tomorrow.

Finally, I made a handful of buttons:



I fitted the easy ones, but ran into access issues with a few of them. They may have to wait a bit. I also screwed the apron to the legs, and tapped the wedges home. It may be a while before the bench-top comes off again.

 

[Mike G]

Looking a right chunky monkey Mike, well done.
Looking forward to seeing that "M.G.2024" scrawled into it with a Stanley knife :eusa-whistle:
Cheers, Andy

Thanks Andy. Not sure I'll be carving into it any time soon!

 

[Cabinetman]

Just went back to the beginning Mike, I wanted to see where your old well was, this bench is a king compared to your old one! You were well overdue a new one imo.
You obviously have got into the habit of putting your tools down way over to the right of where you are working so no problem the way you’ve built it.
Sorry, but you’ll all have to wait (quite a while) to see my innovative solution to the well problem.

 

[Mike G]

Yes, the old one wasn't so special. I doubt I'll be rebuilding any engines on the new one, though!

I could see lots of ways of doing the tool well, and anything was better than an entire centre strip as on my old bench. I don't need a lot of space in a well, as my tools are all immediately to hand just to the side of the bench, and because of the shelf at the back. I just can't imagine working without a shelf behind the bench....tapes, rules, pencils, bench hooks, knife, drill bits, rubbers, chalk, bench chisels......and where else would you put your cup of tea? Anyway, the shelf de-clutters the bench and allows the tool well to be quite small. And I'm looking forwared to seeing yours.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Sorry, but you’ll all have to wait (quite a while) to see my innovative solution to the well problem.

I had an innovative solution - get rid of the well. They're a bloody nuisance. :lol:

 

[Lons]

Looking a right chunky monkey Mike, well done.
Looking forward to seeing that "M.G.2024" scrawled into it with a Stanley knife :eusa-whistle:
Cheers, Andy

Thanks Andy. Not sure I'll be carving into it any time soon!

I was expecting nothing less than a rose to match the staircase. :eusa-snooty:

 

[Woodbloke]

I had an innovative solution - get rid of the well. They're a bloody nuisance. :lol:

Great things is a bench well; useful for keeping safe all sorts of odds n'sods when a job is in the offing. Small stuff currently needed (screws, hinges, fittings etc) are kept are kept in a rectangular 'baccy tin labelled 'job' - Rob

 

[PAC1]

I had an innovative solution - get rid of the well. They're a bloody nuisance. :lol:

Great things is a bench well; useful for keeping safe all sorts of odds n'sods when a job is in the offing. Small stuff currently needed (screws, hinges, fittings etc) are kept are kept in a rectangular 'baccy tin labelled 'job' - Rob

Aaah. I need a baccy tin.
The "tool" well is also a great place to sweep the bench detritus into prior to vacuuming it all along with the small bits I needed! I even fitted ramps at either end to aid cleaning it out.

 

[AJB Temple]

Yes ^^ I've got ramps in mine too, but wonder if a lift out end in slots would be even better. I want to make a bench, but this is on the wifey veto list currently.

Mike - that heater really worries me. It is bound to get saw dust in it and one of these days the fire extinguisher I can't see anywhere in your workshop is going to be needed :?

Not sure I would be super keen on cable to sockets just pinned to the wall either. But I am super clumsy and can easy knock stuff that no one else would clonk.

Just installed a load of wiring for offspring's wall hung TV and surround sound. Put it all in galvanised trunking (it's inside a big walk in cupboard) as among things he has inherited from me, being accident prone is one.

 

[Woodbloke]

Yes ^^ I've got ramps in mine too, but wonder if a lift out end in slots would be even better. I want to make a bench, but this is on the wifey veto list currently.

Mine has ramps as well, but whole of the bench well bottom (12mm ply) lifts out in two sections. This means that I can use a big F clamp (or similar) to clamp from both sides of the top if needed - Rob

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I had an innovative solution - get rid of the well. They're a bloody nuisance. :lol:

Great things is a bench well; useful for keeping safe all sorts of odds n'sods when a job is in the offing. Small stuff currently needed (screws, hinges, fittings etc) are kept are kept in a rectangular 'baccy tin labelled 'job' - Rob

My bench had a well in its last two incarnations, but I got rid of it to narrow the top and much prefer it without. After years of using a bench with an apron it's good not to have one of them as well. It wouldn't do for everyone to be the same.

 

[Mike G]

......Mike - that heater really worries me. It is bound to get saw dust in it and one of these days the fire extinguisher I can't see anywhere in your workshop is going to be needed :?

Not sure I would be super keen on cable to sockets just pinned to the wall either. But I am super clumsy and can easy knock stuff that no one else would clonk. ....

You made me go back out and take a couple of extra photos!!

The heater has moved to the tail end of the bench:



You can see that it is well back behind the overhang of the bench:



I've had it at one end or other of the bench for the last 9 years, and I have quite a discipline with it. Firstly, it is never on if I'm not in the workshop. Secondly, it gets vaccumed every day. Finally, it gets blown through with an air-line every few weeks. And finally finally, here's the fire-extinguisher, right by the door:



The sockets too are completely protected by the overhang of the bench:





The ones at the other end are protected by a shelf over, and by being tucked into a corner:



Worry not, Adrian.

 

[Mike G]

I started this afternoon with work on the tool well, and it's associated secondary bits of wood under the shelf. I shaped the end of the batten which forms the back of the toolwell, and the shelf support:



This allowed me to relocate the sockets at the tail end of the bench:



I formed a shape on the back end of the breadboard end, and then screwed the ply base of the tool well into its rebates, from the underside. A lot of today's work involved lying on my back on the floor or inside the bench cupboard working above my face, but cutting the breadboard end involved standing inside my finishing cupboard, and kneeling on the bench:



I then shaped the off-cut from the breadboard end to fit loosely in the gap:



Out-of-sequence images:






This gives me a removable end to the tool well so that I can sweep it out. Having got the tool well done, the shelf supports in place, and the sockets sorted, I could move on to the shelf. This is just a straight piece of 220 x 20 redwood, with a few holes in it:











It took me a couple of hours to make and fit the awkward remaining buttons, and the associated packing pieces under the thinner board at the back of the bench. I've no photos to illustrate that, you'll be pleased to read.

Here are a handful of photos trying to show the scrub-planed finish. I don't think they help much:







Now that I've finished lying in it, I could stow my power tools in the cupboard:



I had toyed with leaving the belt sander and router in there, too, but decided to leave them where they've always lived for the time being. All those tools on the shelf have the advantage of being permanently plugged in.

Finally, a fun little aside. As I no longer have square dog holes, I was cutting up my old hold-fasts for firewood. They'd done years and years of service, but because they can't rotate they're pretty limited in their usefulness. Anyway, I thought I'd take a look at the inside of the joint of one of them:





Wedged through-tenons are such wonderful joints!

Tomorrow I have to try to find a place for this, which had lived under the tail end of the old bench. The longer bench doesn't leave room for it:



And I need to sort out my workholding/ stops etc:

 

[Cabinetman]

Looking pretty damn good! One last thing I think you need to do Mike is to take a shaving off the top of the vice jaw, or are you going to treat yourself to a new Beech one?
I’m surprised you feel the need to roughen the bench top, I have a Beech top with a slap of sanding sealer and I don’t find it too slippy, and also I don’t even have a metal saw tooth edge on my planing stop. Suppose it depends what you’re used to.
Ian

 

[Mike G]

.....One last thing I think you need to do Mike is to take a shaving off the top of the vice jaw, or are you going to treat yourself to a new Beech one?.....

It's half a mill shy, Ian, so I can't take any off. I guess I should make a new one.

 

[Cabinetman]

Hmm, where to put the holdfasts? Nearly everyone puts them in holes in the front face of the r/h leg. In the way and not particularly easy to put away when you have better things to do imo.
This is a bad sketch of my take, just a sloping bit of wood to drape them over, I’ll be interested to see if there are any good ideas out there.
Ian

 

[Mike G]

It's an issue I've not even begun to think about......but sticking out anywhere seems like a great way to get a bruised leg.

 

[AndyT]

"Where to put the holdfasts?" is an easy question!!

Over 30 years ago, my wife and I stripped down an old sofa, planning to reupholster it. After a while we thought about the cost and effort required and weighed them against the likelihood that we'd only end up with a sofa that wasn't comfortable to sit on. So the stripped down frame was slotted into the bay window shaped space behind and above the workshop bench.

Since then it's been really useful as a place to dump all sorts of useful bits and pieces that have never merited a tidier home. Here's a close-up of the holdfast corner



and a more general view, just to share the full beauty



It works for me! But I guess it might lower the tone of your new, very smart arrangements, and excavating the space required might just be a step too far... :eusa-whistle: :lol:

 

[Cabinetman]

Well as you say Andy "it works for me" I just need to find an old sofa. At least you’re not mindlessly following the herd!

 

[PAC1]

It's an issue I've not even begun to think about......but sticking out anywhere seems like a great way to get a bruised leg.

Another two holes in the shelf - sorted

 

[AndyT]

Well as you say Andy "it works for me" I just need to find an old sofa. At least you’re not mindlessly following the herd!

...and I rather suspect that the the herd aren't following me!

 

[Cabinetman]

In this instance maybe not lol, but you are followed Andy, I might even say you are an influencer!
Never thought I would use that word except in a negative way, but I mean it nicely.
Ian

 

[Mike G]

It's an issue I've not even begun to think about......but sticking out anywhere seems like a great way to get a bruised leg.

Another two holes in the shelf - sorted

It isn't as easy as that for boring reasons (frame pieces below, and clearance for the window shutter thing above)........but I've found a nice place. Hopefully I'll get it done today and post some photos later, but today is a work day.

 

[Mike G]

I only had an hour or two in the workshop this evening. The first thing I did was an experiment to find the correct hole size for the holdfasts I've got (thanks Doug), and this will determine the size of bench dogs and planing stop board pegs. I used an off cut of the benchtop so as to replicate both the timber and the thickness. The first hole I tried, 3/4", worked perfectly:



That commits me to a bit of resistance training, as the only 3/4" drills/ bits/ augers I have are for a brace, and it's relatively hard work drilling through this thickness of beech.

More important to the way I've always worked, though, are planing stops. The ones from my old bench have always worked perfectly well, so I just needed to drill holes for them. The 16mm holes I can only do with a spade bit:





These planing stops have always hung off the end of my bench, so that's where I put them, along with a carefully positioned dowel (OK, snooker cue off-cut) on which to hang the holdfasts:



A part of the old bench which I came to rely on was a planing stop parallel to the face of the bench. I used it all the time, but it's development was a complete fluke. I placed a loose board in the tool well because I was tired of the tool well and needed some more space to work. To support this board, I screwed a batten to the underside of it. Weeks or months later I discovered that flipping the board over gave me a really useful stop. I've no idea now how I worked without it previously. Here is the board in its normal position, followed by it flipped over in it's planing-stop position:





The old board obviously won't transfer over to the new bench, so I need a variation. I found a suitable board to make the replacement of, and the old one is behind:



I glued in a couple of strips to fill in the housings, and that was it for the day:



The reason I stopped at that point wasn't just that dinner was ready. I puzzled and pondered over the location of the holes for the hold-fasts. As I haven't worked with this type before, I could quite easily drill holes in entirely the wrong position in my nice new bench top, and regret it for years. I have take a decision not to have a line of holes along near the front edge of the bench, at least initially. But I need some further back. These holes will not only work for holdfasts, but they'll locate my parallel planing stop. So, if anyone has any advice on the location of holdfast holes, I'd love to hear it.

 

[AndyT]

I think the simplest approach to holdfast holes is to wait until you need to fix something, at the size of work you normally do, and make each hole as you need it.

I've ended up with three at the left hand end (near the vice, bench stop and rear planing stop) plus a couple more near the front on the right.

You do have a doe's foot or two, I think. They give you a great deal of flexibility without the need for many holes.

 

[Cabinetman]

I like the holdfast hanger, practical. Holes, yes I agree re a line along the bench, mainly used with a tail vice - not my thing.
I have only drilled about 4 holes in my top over a few years, they were drilled as and when needed, which as it’s hard work to do might suit your situation. So the planing stop you’re making, does that function the same as a planing stick?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If you have bech morticer, a drill stand or anything that's better bolted down, put your holdfast holes to suit. I can bolt my drill stand (a Bosch S7) down and swing it out over the vice which can be handy on occasion.

 

[Mike G]

........So the planing stop you’re making, does that function the same as a planing stick?

I don't know what a planing stick is, I'm afraid.

We may be running into the limits of my knowledge of the vocabulary. I've always called the thing on the end of my bench a planing stop. It's parallel to the end of the bench, right angles to the front of the bench. The one running parallel to the front edge of the bench is what I am going to make tomorrow, but I don't know what that's called. It allows scrub planing, cross planing, and really helps with carving.

 

[Mike G]

If you have bech morticer, a drill stand or anything that's better bolted down, put your holdfast holes to suit. I can bolt my drill stand (a Bosch S7) down and swing it out over the vice which can be handy on occasion.

I've nothing like that, Phil.

 

[Cabinetman]

........So the planing stop you’re making, does that function the same as a planing stick?

I don't know what a planing stick is, I'm afraid.

We may be running into the limits of my knowledge of the vocabulary. I've always called the thing on the end of my bench a planing stop. It's parallel to the end of the bench, right angles to the front of the bench. The one running parallel to the front edge of the bench is what I am going to make tomorrow, but I don't know what that's called. It allows scrub planing, cross planing, and really helps with carving.

Yup, that’s what they call a planing stick, and a very handy thing to have, it is normally the same length as the bench about an inch thick and it fits between the front and back halves of a split top, being able to be raised when needed, the rest of the time it is flush and forms part of the top.
Some people put a line of holes in the stick and use it as a tool rack, totally in the way as far as I’m concerned.
Ian

 

[Mike G]

Right, so yes, I'll be making my equivalent of that tomorrow (presuming the phone doesn't ring). It will have pegs/ dowels in it, to locate it in the same way as my planing stop does, but this time the same size as the holdfast holes, so I need to know where those holes are going before I build the planing stick equivalent. I'm narrowing in on the answer but it places the front edge of my bench out of the range of my holdfasts. I wonder if I will regret that........or will I just use a batten to pin down work at the front edge, I wonder?

 

[Cabinetman]

Not quite sure exactly how you fix your long stop, if the pegs were in the front edge you could then turn the board around so that what was the front becomes the back thus bringing it so much closer to the front edge of the bench, this might be close enough to be able to groove or rebate a piece of work against it?
Unfortunately only time and you can show where else you might want to hold something down, but there’s probably a particular bit of the bench where you do most chiselling, and you will remember which dog holes you used most with your wooden holdfasts.
Also as Andy said most things are within reach of a Doesfoot.
Ian