• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

Tims workshop

T

timothyedoran

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Hi

Hopefully this will be the start of my shed build. I have permission from the boss to build a workshop/bike shed in the garden. It will be 3x4m and under 2.5m high for permitted development. The major design constraint is that I want to be able to hang bikes from the ceiling/back wall by their wheel. This means that the ceiling must be atleast 185cm (most bikes are about 175). This means that it will be a flat roof design.

Budget wise I was hoping it would be about £1000 but I now realise it will be more like £1500+

I have enjoyed reading through the various shed build threads and I have lots of questions which I hope you can help with.

I dont have access to a windows PC, so all my design will be done on an android tablet using Onshape.

1. My first question regards wood. I am planning to use 2x4 timber. for the studwork at 600mm intervals. The local agri shop, Mole Valley sells very affordable rough sawn treated timber. Can I use this for the studwork and floor joists? I realise it will not be as uniform as regularised timber, but will it really casue me head aches. Here is a link to the type of timber. http://m.molevalleyfarmers.com/h5/r/mol ... 9598A245FD

2. For the base I am planning on using paving slabs on a Mot1 base and then sand cement mix. I think that paving slabs will work out about 1-2 quid each. In your experiance will a concrete slab be much more work/money and will it be better? Access from the private track at the back is about 5 meters, which a small lorry could drive down.

3. I really like the idea of the stub walls for the shed to sit on. Would I be able to do this with a paving slab base?

4. Can I just rest the sole plate on bricks at regular intervals rather than building a stub wall all the way around? I would use enough engineering bricks to support at every 400mm. I have seen the concrete lintels idea but think that they will be too heavy for me to move on my own, also they work out quite expensive.

Photos of the site and some design ideas to follow.

Many thanks for your help

Tim
 
Hi Tim,

All the best with your project.

I can't answer any of your questions, but there are many on this forum who will be able to answer them.

I have no experience of Onshape. Could you summarise how it works?

Thanks.
 
Welcome Tim. This is the very best place for advice on shed building, I reckon.

The big big deal with any decent shed is the junction between the walls and whatever they sit on. If you have timber at ground level, you have something that is beginning to fall apart as soon as you have finished building it. The absolute fundamental of a decent timber building is to raise the base of the walls off the ground by a minimum of 150mm, in such a way as water can run off and vermin can't get underneath. How you achieve that isn't cast-in-stone.

If you use a floor of slabs laid on the earth, you aren't helping that junction detail I have described. You certainly can't build your timber structure directly off them if you want anything to last. So you have to come up with something which can be laid on the slabs which is masonry, the right sort of size, and strong enough to cope with the inadequate bearing provided by the slabs. PCC lintels are one answer. Concrete fence posts are another possible. Maybe casting up a concrete ring-beam yourself is an alternative. If anyone knows of a heavy duty solid plastic or rubber product roughly 100 x 150 in section and of 1500 to 2000 min. lengths then that could probably be made to work. This isn't complicated, but it is enormously important to the quality of the building you are proposing. Why would you spend £1500 on something that is going to leak from day 1, and will start rotting within a few months?
 
Oh, and workshop & bike shed? Whoa!!.........I wouldn't be letting sawdust within a country mile of my bikes. You need to come up with a way of keeping the two activities separate.
 
Afternnon Tim and welcome to the forum.

Are you looking at MVF in Frome (Standerwick) ?

If so, Batsford Timber ( no connection ) is fairly close. They stock some structural timber and they deliver. I was quoted £20 to drop some fencing in Bradford on Avon.

Their website doesn't give prices, but PM me an email address and I'll send you a price list.

Cheers

Dave
 
As regards rough sawn timber over regularised is that if the timber comes from multiple batches, the dimensions could be different if done on different machines or a different times.

It can be a pain if your noggins wont level on both sides with the vertical framing for example.

So try and get all the timber in one go and if you have to go back for more, take an off-cut from the previous batch with you just in case you have to hand pick the extra pieces to match the size.

Good Luck

Bob
 
Thanks for the replies.

About the bikes and dust. When I say workshop I mean tinkering and hiding space. I don't intend to fill it full of big machines. But point taken. If necessary I could partion it off, but I would rather not as it would loose space.

I shall have a rethink about a concrete slab. I was put off it initially buy the perceived cost and difficulty in laying it. Is there a tutorial or guide for how to do it? How much would 2m3 of concrete cost from a mixer lorry? Or would I be able to mix it in a mini mixer thing?

Is this about right. 100mm rubble, 100mm mot1, 100mm concrete? I might have just imagined those numbers?

Onshape is an online cad with a mobile app. It's a bit like sketch up. One downside is not being able to colour or texture like in sketch up. But it's great that I can look at it on my phone when I am supposed to be washing up or doing other boring necessary jobs.
Here is a link to my doodling https://cad.onshape.com/documents/2...e9617d9ffb9fc89a6a/e/5f7152ead5031af92de7eb29

I don't want to spoil my workshop for a few hundred quid.

I will compare costs of rough vs smooth timber.
 
Wow! My 3D mouse is spinning the drawing all over the place! I like that a number of users can contribute to the model. That could have mileage on a forum like this.
 
Tim - sounds like your plan is coming together, you have started planning at the right time, try to get the external stuff done before Nov if you can!

Dan
 
Malc2098":31l7wrle said:
Wow! My 3D mouse is spinning the drawing all over the place! I like that a number of users can contribute to the model. That could have mileage on a forum like this.
Click to expand...

Yes that part of the functionality is quite cool. There is some good versioning functionality with branching so it's possible to roll back.

I think that the inability to colour or texture a surface is a limitation. Other people's models with green grass, wood, glass etc are great visual aids. They seem to add functionality all the time so it will probably happen.

I hope to have something done by November but I have a 8 week old baby and a threenager which will (gladly) dominate my time
 
TrimTheKing":19iy3x9o said:
Hi Tim

I've recently poured a lot of concrete and it works out around £100 pm3.

Cheers
Mark
Click to expand...

Thanks. I will phone some local companies, but it is great to have a rough idea
 
Most concrete truck carry 6 cu m and taking less than that can work out dearer.

There is a franchise operation called Mixamate who operate trucks with all materials on board and a large mixer on the back and they mix on demand and you lay which might be worth looking at if you have one in your area.

Bob
 
9fingers":3q4hwsch said:
Most concrete truck carry 6 cu m and taking less than that can work out dearer.

There is a franchise operation called Mixamate who operate trucks with all materials on board and a large mixer on the back and they mix on demand and you lay which might be worth looking at if you have one in your area.

Bob
Click to expand...

That's exactly what mine was Bob. Easy Mix I think they were called. Free barrow service, the wagon comes with all the dry ingredients up top, a hopper below, down onto a conveyor which pushes them up to a mixer at the end of a boom. Mixer mixes then they dump into barrow below and barrow into place. Pay as you use.

Tim - for clarity that price is ex VAT.

Thanks
Mark
 
I heard back from the planning department in Wiltshire. For the sum of 33 quid they told me that I needed no planning permission of my proposed design.

The first part of my workshop build has started. At the weekend my brother and his partner helped move the current shed to a new location. When I say helped, I meant that they moved it and I watched due to a bad back. I hope the coffee and advice I supplied them was good pay back.

Here is the shed in is old location which is where the new workshop will be.

e639c337f44d7415bfb9cdff02d62601.jpg


Here is the shed in is its new location. The felt needs replacing as it was damaged and rotten.

a8da4b80fd8bb90195ce838f4ddbc2e3.jpg


I dug a hole to see what was under the old shed.

b6fb030c2e18df7a97d782b0b3209973.jpg


125efc98a42039ff07bb7e1c43ce327a.jpg


056dfd52ae976dc2278cd5172bc659e1.jpg


There was a lot of rat poo under the old shed as we had chickens for a while and therefore gained a rat problem. For this reason I will use solid insulation rather than rat bedding rockwool.

As far as I can see there is about 330mm of top soil before I hit large chunks of stone. I am going to put a concrete base down in the Mike method.

Question - Do I need to remove all the top soil at 330mm+ down to solid stuff or can I dig down 250mm? 250mm = 150mm Mot 1 + 100mm concrete. (total concrete will be 150mm with 50mm above ground)

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 
If this was just a small store shed then you could possibly take the risk of not removing all the topsoil. It isn't, so don't! ;) :)

Dig down to something firm, and if necessary build back up again with hardcore.
 
Mike G":1vy9nebc said:
If this was just a small store shed then you could possibly take the risk of not removing all the topsoil. It isn't, so don't! ;) :)

Dig down to something firm, and if necessary build back up again with hardcore.
Click to expand...
I thought that might be the case. I shall get digging. I shall have to take it gently as I have a sore back so don't expect exciting progress photos.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 
Tim, try and get a lumbar support from a sports injury type place, or anywhere else that may be cheaper. They are worth it if you have a vulnerable back. And I found one day working and at least one day off helps.

Good luck with the dig. Your soil looks friendly, though!
 
Good idea about taking days off, and some back support, thanks.

Ok another question. A house near by has just knocked down a garage built of concrete blocks. It's in a skip and the builders look busy, so I would need to move fast. There is a mix of stuff but lots like this http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Dens...160415398257&mkwid=sTYbNDU6o_dm&match=&kword=

Can I use these at the bottom of the hole laid on their side as hard core? I think I will need to dig down 350mm to firm ground. This would result in 100mm concrete block hardcore then 150mm mot1 then 100 or 150mm concrete. I will.make sure the concrete is 50mm above ground.

Does this sound ok?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 
I think others are more qualified to answer, but I reckon hardcore is intended to be irregular in shape in order to provide a 'key' to the poured concrete.

I pushed over a garden wall on my site, and me and a mate sat down for a day smashing it into smaller bits.

But, it's still free hardcore even if you have to break it up.
 
They will do the job but be hard work to break up in the way that you would normally compact hardcore to minimise voids.
However if you "lay" them rather than chuck them any old how and fill the voids with MOT or similar then it should be fine and it is free!!

Bob
 
Yes I was planning on laying them carefully as you describe. Cheers. Free is the price I like the most.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 
Malc2098":wdcmhl01 said:
I think others are more qualified to answer, but I reckon hardcore is intended to be irregular in shape in order to provide a 'key' to the poured concrete.......
Click to expand...

No, Malc, this isn't so. Hardcore is generally "blinded" with sand to produce a flat surface on which to lay a DPM, on top of which the concrete is cast. The only place I can think of where hardcore has the concrete poured directly on top is in garden paths, and there it is only because there is no need to do it any better.

-

They'll be fine, Tim. As Bob says, lay them down flat, and make sure the voids are filled with whatever you are putting on top.
 
Probably overkill but hire a whacker plate for a day to vibrate the hardcore down and consolidate it. It will should take less than an hour, you can do the same, but not as well, by tamping with the head of a sledge hammer but it takes longer. Then put the sand and DPC on top. Put some shuttering around with the top level with the finished concrete level so that you can tamp the concrete down and level it off using a heavy plank or length of wood. You can hire metal shuttering but for a small job it may well be cheaper to use timber.

You can then trowel it off as it dries to give a smooth finish or brush it gently with a hard brush to give a non slip finish.
 
Unfortunately I was not quick enough. The skip had been emptied before I arrived. Probably a good thing really as I haven't got anywhere to store it before I dig out the hole.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 
So I have been playing around with onshape and have sort of made a plan of what I want. I got to the 'im happy and this has taken ages, I hope I don't have to make any changes' stage when my partner suggested that maybe the front would be better being the lower side of the building. I.e 180 degrees from what I have planned.

0774a832f5cf725c0b9200fff0e16ed0.jpg


I thought it would be simple to rejig it, but I don't think that it will be possible to fit a standard door frame (2080mm) in the low end. It's amazing how the height gets eaten up with the roof beams, framing etc. This means I would have to custom make a door frame and maybe a door rather than buying a second had door. I had to do that for the back door on my house by adapting a hardwood door frame kit. It took longer than I would have liked.

I will post an update when there is a winner. I am not hopeful about my chances vs my partner.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 
Why slope the roof that way, why not slope front to back?
I think it will look better that way and not cause any construction issues.

Rod
 
She wants it low end at the front so that it will look smaller to our neighbour. Our garden is an odd shape. We live in a terrace of 4 and the two middle houses have their gardens at the back and the end houses have their gardens at the side.
We are a middle house which means that our workshop will actually be outside the back of the neighbours. It can't go anywhere else due to our garden design.
It's complicated and I have probably lost you.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 
This is so frustrating! I can't see any images hosted by Tapatalk. Therefore I have no idea what Tim is proposing.
 
Mike have you tried a different browser? Looks to me like tapatalk is still running TLS1.0 which Google have deemed to have too many vulnerabilities and as such have stopped supporting. Other browsers are less fussy so might work for you...

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Mike G":27zvx8g0 said:
This is so frustrating! I can't see any images hosted by Tapatalk. Therefore I have no idea what Tim is proposing.
Click to expand...


Mike Give me a few minutes to clean up from the workshop and I'll copy them for you. Better make that an hour lol as glue ups have a habit to taking longer than they should lol

Mark has tracked the problem to a potential security issue between certain versions of Chrome and certain versions of tapatalk but not identified a solution for you. There is nothing wrong at the forum end.

Bob
 
TrimTheKing":2czufsr0 said:
Mike have you tried a different browser?.......
Click to expand...

Too much faffing about with autofill passwords to bother changing browsers. I only swapped to Chrome because Opera and Firefox were both stuffing up my yahoo mail.
 
Mike G":1zltyc8x said:
TrimTheKing":1zltyc8x said:
Mike have you tried a different browser?.......
Click to expand...

Too much faffing about with autofill passwords to bother changing browsers. I only swapped to Chrome because Opera and Firefox were both stuffing up my yahoo mail.
Click to expand...

There is a message there Mike. Perhaps you should consider dumping yahoo for mail especially if you rely on it professionally
Having your own domain and mail host wont cost you very much at all.
I think mine is about £8 every two years for a .org.uk domain.
Bob
 
9fingers":3mhcv973 said:
Mike G":3mhcv973 said:
TrimTheKing":3mhcv973 said:
Mike have you tried a different browser?.......
Click to expand...

Too much faffing about with autofill passwords to bother changing browsers. I only swapped to Chrome because Opera and Firefox were both stuffing up my yahoo mail.
Click to expand...

There is a message there Mike. Perhaps you should consider dumping yahoo for mail especially if you rely on it professionally
Having your own domain and mail host wont cost you very much at all.
I think mine is about £8 every two years for a .org.uk domain.
Bob
Click to expand...
Could be worse. He could be using AOL.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 
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