Ultra-processed food ?

[sammy.se]

Wait until everyone realizes that vegetable and seed oils are only good for machinery and lighting lamps! They should never be eaten.
The only fats we should be eating are animal derived and fruit fats (olive, avocado, etc.).

I know this is controversial - but it's true

(cue the furore)

 

[Tiresias]

Tiresias - is alliums bother her but garlic doesn't, have you tried very finely chopping mild onions such as shallots and cooking them for a long time with a block of butter and some salt (to inhibit browning) until they become a very soft paste. This makes the onions extremely mild and usually works for people with such sensitivity. Is very had for adding flavour and thickening to sauces.

Thanks AJB. 15 years ago I could have got away with that, and indeed that was what I did. But my partner’s aversion has become worse over the years. I just don’t use them at all now. Which does cause a problem, as you say, with ‘depth’ in some dishes. Some Indian cooking uses hing (asafoetida – mm, never sure how to spell that), as a substitute, but it doesn’t really work. And, my, does it honk in its uncooked state.

Add to the onion aversion a similar thing with cucumbers and bananas and going to restaurants is a nightmare. Although I’ve found that there are fewer problems with high end and low end restaurants when you ask for stuff without onions. The former, presumably because they are accustomed to the whims of diners, and the latter because they genuinely wish to be helpful.

I can eat anything. Except oysters 50% of the time. Really like them but about half the time I am as sick as a dog afterwards. Oh, and the liver they used to serve at my boarding school. Like eating a carpet tile. Still, once I’d vomited it up over the teacher that was assigned to make sure I finished my meal (a school rule) I got ‘excused liver’. Not quite Cool Hand Luke, but getting there.

But I digress…

 

[AJB Temple]

Ah, that's unfortunate. Onions are so useful. Currently addicted to the soft mush of whole ones smoke and blackened on the BBQ. Waitrose sell minuscule pots of asafoetida and I've tried it but not really sure how to use it effectively. Really like Indian food but find it difficult to get the authentic flavours that restaurants achieve.

 

[John Brown]

Why we are not all eating nettle soup is beyond me. Can’t be difficult to farm.

Have you tried it?
I made some nettle beer a few months back. Disgusting. I wouldn't even use it in a slug trap..

 

[John Brown]

Chicken and bacon sandwich, John

Ah! Ok, thanks.

 

[Cabinetman]

Wait until everyone realizes that vegetable and seed oils are only good for machinery and lighting lamps! They should never be eaten.
The only fats we should be eating are animal derived and fruit fats (olive, avocado, etc.).

I know this is controversial - but it's true

(cue the furore)

Yes I have been reading about it. Produces Linoleic acid which is very bad for the body and contributes to degenerative diseases.

 

[MattS]

An easy way to think about the ultra processed / processed is processed food is stuff that your grandparents would have had, think bacon, citric acid etc.

We eat nettles occasionally, really should do it more often as I think the soup is excellent. Did you also know the stems can be used to really easily make cordage. You can make really quick bracelets etc which is great with kids. But in the past it's been used for fabric, including with flax to make Swiss army rucksacks etc. and was known as Salz and Feffer due to appearance.

 

[AndyP]

Have you tried it?
I made some nettle beer a few months back. Disgusting. I wouldn't even use it in a slug trap..

Yes.
It’s a bit like pumpkin pie, not the taste but the fact that it is what you add to eat that makes it palatable. For us that’s garlic and coriander.

 

[RogerS]

..... going to restaurants is a nightmare. .....

Try going out with a partner who is both coeliac (highly sensitive) and histamine intolerant!

 

[AJB Temple]

Yes, histamine intolerance is a real pain as it almost always carries with it a range of allergies to very common fresh or cooked foods. I sympathise. They say its caused by lack of an enzyme called diamine oxidase, but as far as I know - not an expert but I've had a lot of allergy tests in my life and so have offspring- there are no reliable tests for that after direct food allergy tests (unreliable often) have occurred. Medical science still struggles with this it seems and the prevalence of ultra processed foods and really quite poor food labelling doesn't help.

 

[Tiresias]

Waitrose sell minuscule pots of asafoetida and I've tried it but not really sure how to use it effectively. Really like Indian food but find it difficult to get the authentic flavours that restaurants achieve.


What are you aiming for? India is a big place, and if you then factor in the caste system that makes an awful lot of cuisines. Hing is mostly Brahmin or Jain. And surely, with your experience, you know more than I do.

I like all of it; austere (-ish) to the north to lush in the south (mmm, coconut). My last trip there was cancelled. Some silly beggar with a ‘My parents went to Wu han wet market and all I got was this lousy pangolin’ t-shirt may have been involved. Coincided with a cricket tour too. Bah.

 

[Lons]

Ah, that's unfortunate. Onions are so useful..............

There are apparently quite a lot of people who don't like onions and I'm one of them, cant stand the things so If I buy pies, pasties etc it's the first thing I ask and it's surprisingly easy to find such items from the on site bakers and butchers who tell me they sell a lot without onions. E.G. the butcher in our local town says he sells at least 50% of his steak pies without onions - and they're delicious.

I am picky though and won't eat tomatoes either which is just a bit limiting according to my wife though I don't see a problem.

 

[John Brown]

Should You Avoid Seed Oils?

Recently, seed oils have had a bad press. In this article, we’ll debunk the myths and give you our science-backed take on seed oils.

zoe.com

 

[Raymedullary]

When we go shopping we take turns to vet what the other puts in the trolley. Basically we do not allow anything that has "ingredients" Once you adopt this approach it becomes pretty easy to eat clean.
The only exception would be things like condiments.... mustard or chili sauce for example. We make (nearly) all our own bread with just the 4 basic ingredients... its better without any fat (not that we shy away from fat) Olive oil or butter is our go to. Plenty of eggs too!
So single food items only!
There's no point repeating anything about the "S word" here... other than Sugar is SH*t!

 

[AndyP]

Surprised the other "S word" has not had a mention yet, Salt.
Surprising, or not, what you can learn to live without. Cooked food without salt may well taste bland to some but it is possible, as with sugar, to wean yourself off it.

 

[Tiresias]

Surprised the other "S word" has not had a mention yet, Salt.
Surprising, or not, what you can learn to live without. Cooked food without salt may well taste bland to some but it is possible, as with sugar, to wean yourself off it.

I am reminded of a Simon Hopkinson quote, when he was cooking for a couple in London. ‘Well, we’ve given up salt’ they said. Hopkinson in the garden with a ciggy: ‘Well you won’t taste anything will you’.

Salt is essential. That is why cows and sheep go and find salt caves and lick the walls. As indeed do prisoners in the Bar-L. But possibly not for the same reason.

I think the NHS guideline is no more than 6g a day. About a teaspoon. I monitored my own intake for a few months. Even including fish and soy sauce that was fine. Scandi cooking however does tend to go overboard on the salt.

Salt of course has been the source of empires. I remember Chatterton (my old Latin teacher) telling us that the word salary was derived from salt. Many, many years ago, in a galaxy far, far away.

 

[AJB Temple]

It (no added salt) may be OK domestically if that floats your boat, but If you try to sell savoury food in a UK/EU catering operation, and don't use salt as the primary seasoning, you will go bust in double quick time. ** It's essential to bring out the flavour of some foods. All power to your elbow for those who don't add salt to food when cooking - it's just a lifestyle choice. In the western world we tend to endure food fads including anti-salt. In the past 20-30 years we have had: butter is bad for you; skimmed milk is better than full fat; animal fats are bad for you; avoid red meat. We currently are experiencing the "gluten intolerance" phase where people avoid gluten for no good reason. They are not coeliac, generally have had no gluten allergy tests, but have been on Tik Tok or read a "food influencer" piece.

** That said, many chefs go overboard with it. There is a pretty good chef near us, Graham Garrett (read his book sex and drugs and sausage rolls) who is a superb cook and until recently was starred, but IMO he's frequently on the edge of ruining his version of fine dining with excessive seasoning. He's still a good bloke despite not agreeing with me

 

[AJB Temple]

Waitrose sell minuscule pots of asafoetida and I've tried it but not really sure how to use it effectively. Really like Indian food but find it difficult to get the authentic flavours that restaurants achieve.



What are you aiming for? India is a big place, and if you then factor in the caste system that makes an awful lot of cuisines. Hing is mostly Brahmin or Jain. And surely, with your experience, you know more than I do.

I like all of it; austere (-ish) to the north to lush in the south (mmm, coconut). My last trip there was cancelled. Some silly beggar with a ‘My parents went to Wu han wet market and all I got was this lousy pangolin’ t-shirt may have been involved. Coincided with a cricket tour too. Bah.

I've never been to India and never had the good fortune of someone to show me how to combine spices. I've tried lots of styles but never get close to what Atul Kochar was achieving when he stormed the London scene. I was booked on one of Dipna Anand's courses recentishly but it was cancelled through illness. Hence I remain quite ignorant. My wife won't let me go to India because she says I will have "naughty botty" from beginning to end

 

[TrimTheKing]

Salt is essential in life, particularly for those of us who exercise a lot. One of the reasons people get cramps is down to lack of salt in diet (among other things obviously). Like everything, or most things, moderation is required, and that's where ready meals etc fall down as they're often packed with sugar and salt.

We started using Gousto and/or Hello Fresh a few years ago and never looked back. Although it's slightly more expensive than buying the stuff yourself, for a young and very busy family like mine, the ease of picking meals from a menu and having all the ingredients, along with a menu/instruction card arrive in a box is invaluable.

No time spent thinking about what we want to eat, no time surfing the shelves to locate the ingredients, no extra planning to make sure there's no wastage. It all just arrives and we unpack into the fridge, then the kids are now old enough to share the cooking of them as part of their chores/life skills. Zero waste, time saved, skills learned/shared, for slightly more cost than buying separately.

Totally appreciate that this isn't possible and we're very lucky that we can afford to do this, but it works for us, gives us 4 'clean' meals a week with a huge amount of variety. We eat far more 'vegetarian' meals than we would if we were planning it ourselves, and the flavour combinations open up a whole new world for us and the kids, leading to us then experimenting when we want to.

We still have the odd takeaway and 'cheat' meal, but of 7 days in the week I'd say we eat home prepared 5-6 days every week.

 

[RogerS]

..... I will have "naughty botty" from beginning to end

Sounds like an item on the menu in my Indian takeaway.

We've been to India three times. Fabulous country. Fabulous people. Not sure we'd rush to go back now though as we get he impression tht it's chnged a lot since we were last there (nd not fo the good). Better to have the memories.

 

[RogerS]

......

I think the NHS guideline is no more than 6g a day. .....

It is. But it is also 3x the recommended WHO salt intake (2gm) and easily twice that in the US (2.3gm).

 

[AJB Temple]

2 grams is not much - is that added or inclusive? To put this in context, my basic sourdough loaf mix is 900g flour 600g water and 300g hydrated ferment or starter. We put 20g of salt into the mix so that's 1% before it hits the oven. If I get 18 slices out of a loaf I am presumably getting 2g of salt every time I make a sandwich. But bread without salt added stales really fast and has little taste. We are all doomed. Doomed I say.

 

[AJB Temple]

Would really like to visit India. Rog. You have been lucky. However, news of the way they treat women and girls is not good these days and is a total no no from Mrs AJB T.

 

[RogerS]

Would really like to visit India. Rog. You have been lucky. However, news of the way they treat women and girls is not good these days and is a total no no from Mrs AJB T.

I hear what you say but putting it into perspective....how many millions in India. It's not endemic and there are many other countries in the world where it pretty much is. Afghanistan, for example.

 

[AJB Temple]

I hear what you say but putting it into perspective....how many millions in India. It's not endemic and there are many other countries in the world where it pretty much is. Afghanistan, for example.

Totally agree. But the media makes a mark doesn't it. The culture is fascinating and I would like to experience authentic regional cuisines.

 

[Tiresias]

I've never been to India and never had the good fortune of someone to show me how to combine spices. I've tried lots of styles but never get close to what Atul Kochar was achieving when he stormed the London scene. I was booked on one of Dipna Anand's courses recentishly but it was cancelled through illness. Hence I remain quite ignorant. My wife won't let me go to India because she says I will have "naughty botty" from beginning to end

The Banares chappie? I used to take clients to Chutney Mary and Veeraswamy (I think both run by the same guy - not the Benares one) when I used to operate in the Great Wen. Or some clients, straight to Brick Lane.

One of the things I have found about Indian cookery is differentiating between what is culinary and what is semi-religious or just customary. You know, when cooking lentils you always have to put in turmeric and ginger, no matter what. Just because.

And I wouldn’t worry about naughty botty. A few squits is an easy price to pay. True food poisoning is not. Nile Hilton; Black Forest Gateau; 80’s. Oh. In our flat then the trip to the lavatory was only a few metres. And all tiled. Useful when you weigh 12 stone (none of the servants could move me), keep passing out, and voiding oneself from both ends. That was discomforting.

 

[RogerS]

2 grams is not much - is that added or inclusive? ....

Surely 2gm is 2gm whether it is added or inclusive ?

 

[AJB Temple]

Yep, Benares. That was his own 2 star, but I first came across him in about 2002 when he was at Tamarind and got it a star. He fell out big time with the Benares backing people over some tweets to Priyanka Chopra. He's just opened a place down the road from us in the Pantiles Tunbridge Wells so I will check it out soon and maybe see if they will let me look round the kitchen and meet the team. Atul mist have about 10 places now, so spread chapati thin. I guess practically all of my experience of "indian" food is Bengali, since that dominates in the UK still. Mostly using standard "gravy' base. But Atul was memorable for doing interesting things like soft shell crab.

 

[AJB Temple]

Surely 2gm is 2gm whether it is added or inclusive ?

Not what I meant Rog. Most salt you won't see. So steak cooked on the griddle liberally seasoned with salt, salt in potato cooking water, salted capers and anchovies in your salad. Plus natural salts in celery and lots of other green veg, fish etc. And foods using salt as a cure like hams and so on. It is really hard to track and even harder to quantify. Then people add more at the table and it was that I was talking about.

Personally I think raw tomatoes are about 10 times better with added salt. Malden. Large flakes. Sprinkly of aged balsamic as well or some verjuce.

 

[RogerS]

...... keep passing out, and voiding oneself from both ends. That was discomforting.

Ah yes. We never had any trouble on our Indian trips apart from one memorable flight where we'd gone to the 'Business Club' lounge (a Portakabin craned onto the top of a shop) and I made the mistake of eating some salad. Stupid boy. Should have known better. One hour into the flight saw me running to the bog, barging into the head of the queue, locking myself in just in time to projectile vomit over the door while similar events at the other end.

This thread has come a long way from a chicken and bacon sandwich

 

[AJB Temple]

Is it not usually the water that they wash the salad in? Oddly enough there was just a thing on radio 4 a few mins ago talking about chicken manure seepage in run off into the river Wye I think. Increases phosphates and adds bugs. Water looks clean but isn't.

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

I ran two month-long charity expeditions in northern India; I will never go back. The exploitation, the mysogeny, the assaults on the teenage girls in my care, the constant seeking to fleece you? Not a nice place.

And I wouldn’t worry about naughty botty. A few squits is an easy price to pa

I casivacced a case of teenage amoebic dysentery out of the foothills of the Everest Trail back to a hill station hospital. The sight of rubber gloves on a clothes horse outside the operating theatre, washed for re-use(!!!!) with a balcony lined with pigeons just above....was symptomatic of the dysfunctional culture that pertains there. And that was just as Modi got going; what it is like now is unimaginable.

As for the food? Never, never, never, eat in a restaurant where the kitchen is either "across the street" or "in the building next door". Don't ask me why. Always listen for 'the click' when you open bottled water. They are not above glueing back together used bottles with local water. And, NEVER put locally supplied salt on your food.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Woah guys - let’s take a step back from slagging off India.

I’ve visited with work three times a year for the last ten years and holidayed there five times. It’s a massive country with many differences to the UK. Yes there are unsavoury elements but on the whole the Indian people I have met are welcoming and kind.

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

Blackswanwood, I hear you, and I did meet great folks, predominantly outside the major cities. Maybe the difference is, I was - as a charity-based visitor - exposed to the rawer side of Indian culture.

 

[Tiresias]

Yep, Benares. That was his own 2 star, but I first came across him in about 2002 when he was at Tamarind and got it a star. He fell out big time with the Benares backing people over some tweets to Priyanka Chopra. He's just opened a place down the road from us in the Pantiles Tunbridge Wells so I will check it out soon and maybe see if they will let me look round the kitchen and meet the team. Atul mist have about 10 places now, so spread chapati thin. I guess practically all of my experience of "indian" food is Bengali, since that dominates in the UK still. Mostly using standard "gravy' base. But Atul was memorable for doing interesting things like soft shell crab.

This might amuse you AJB. Finished cooking it yesterday. My partner says the kitchen smells like a cheap Indian restaurant. But I do it every year. And the pickle gets eaten.

2kg mango. I wait until it is about 50p a mango (thanks Tesco). 350g salt. Brine for 6 days. Less if it is warm, but that doesn’t happen in Scotland. 75g each fenugreek, coriander, cumin, crushed garlic. Paste those with a bit of vinegar. Fry 75g black mustard seeds (rai), then the paste and a dozen or so dried chillis. And about 200g of mild (Kashmiri) chilli powder. The original recipe – transcribed into many of my journals – requires about a litre of oil. 300ml will do. Fry until the oil separates. Then about 150ml more vinegar, and mix the mango in. And about 8 tbsp of sugar. Bottle as for any pickle. I got 5 times 500ml jars out of this last night (not unassociated with ENG vs WI: one has to stay up for something). Leave for about a month before using. And then it will keep indefinitely.

Erm, when you say Bengali, do you mean Bangladeshi? That's where most English Indian restaurants have their root. And the boiled onion 'gravy'. Which is of course anathema to my partner. Ach, no it is a distinction without a difference. The venn diagram would show a fair bit of overlap.

 

[spb]

Most British Indian restaurants are owned and run by Bangladeshis, but the classic 'British Indian' menu owes more to the Delhi area and its mix of cultures and cuisines, with occasional additions from other major colonial cities, all filtered through a lens of British expectations and commercial optimisation.

Classical Bengali cooking is very different - apart from the approach to spicing, the saying 'mache bhate Bangali' (roughly, a Bengali is made from fish and rice) is very accurate. That reliance on fish - and specifically the fish of the lower Ganges and Bay of Bengal - makes it tricky to replicate elsewhere in the world, at least economically.

 

[Woodbloke]

Woah guys - let’s take a step back from slagging off India.

I’ve visited with work three times a year for the last ten years and holidayed there five times. It’s a massive country with many differences to the UK. Yes there are unsavoury elements but on the whole the Indian people I have met are welcoming and kind.

There are plenty of places on God's green earth that I would like to visit; India comes waaaaaaaay down the list. The only occasion when I might be persuaded is if I was able to see a tiger in the wild. Apart from that it's off the radar - Rob

 

[Lons]

Ah yes. We never had any trouble on our Indian trips apart from one memorable flight where we'd gone to the 'Business Club' lounge (a Portakabin craned onto the top of a shop) and I made the mistake of eating some salad. Stupid boy. Should have known better. One hour into the flight saw me running to the bog, barging into the head of the queue, locking myself in just in time to projectile vomit over the door while similar events at the other end.

This thread has come a long way from a chicken and bacon sandwich

Not so far off the subject Rog, hope you didn't eat that sandwich.
200 + affected more than 60 hospitalised and dozens of product lines recalled from most supermarkets.

Supermarket sandwiches linked to E. coli outbreak

Retailers are removing at least 56 types of sandwiches, wraps and salad from UK supermarket shelves.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Blackswanwood]

There are plenty of places on God's green earth that I would like to visit; India comes waaaaaaaay down the list. The only occasion when I might be persuaded is if I was able to see a tiger in the wild. Apart from that it's off the radar - Rob

That’s your loss then Rob.

 

[AJB Temple]

Yes, I expect I meant Bangladeshi. I told you I don't know much

As it happens I do also make Mango chutney when I can get a good supply cheaply. Similar method. Usually make two kinds" a hot version that I like, and a sweet and mild version that my wife prefers.

Surprised you don't fancy visiting India Rob. I would love to see some of the palaces and forts before they fall into complete disrepair or disneyfied by hoteliers. Experience Bollywood screened locally and see if I can get my head around regional food differences. Just about all of my limited and somewhat confused knowledge of Indian cuisine comes from cookery books and Rick Stein's excellent TV series. I still keep trying to cook Indian though.