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wadkin RS lathe restoration

W

wallace

Old Oak
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Time to restore a big boy lathe. This is the one Berncarpenter had for sale, and I couldn't resist. He made a huge effort to make sure it was well and truly secured to the pallet by bolts, screws, staples and rope. I am very thankfull because pallet couriers seem to getting worse. Everything arrived safe and I spent a good hour freeing everything from the pallet :D

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Then I started to break the machine down to its components, I have a good selection of pullers from car boots or these cheap hong kong ones. Really a must when messing with old iron.

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When I took the chuck off I was amazed at the quality of the threads, either the chuck has not been taken off much in the last 80 years or it has had a new shaft at some point.

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It all came apart pretty easy

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The motors quite a lump for 1.5hp

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The thing I like the second most about restoring an old machine is taking what looks like a scuzzy piece of junk and making it look new with a clean up and a new paint job.

Of course, the thing I like the most is actually using it after it's done.:)

Good luck with the restoration, and please consider some color other than gray.:)

Kirk
 
Mark, I do agree about the right tools for the job. I've collected quite a few over the years but I'm still poorly equipped when it comes to pullers. The one in your photo looks delightfully simple and yet versatile. I've not seen that type before. I'll have to look out for one.

I'm a little surprised to see the motor with a one hour rating on what would have been sold as an industrial machine. I wonder if the motor might not be original?

Looking forward to see the rest of your magic wand waving on this machine.

Bob
 
9fingers":1c2xhyfz said:
...
I'm a little surprised to see the motor with a one hour rating on what would have been sold as an industrial machine. I wonder if the motor might not be original?
...

Bob
Click to expand...

Maybe it was a school machine. My thicknesser has a one hour rating on the motor, and it came out of a school.

Kirk
 
Bob the puller is a very cheap one from ebay, I sometimes find really good quality ones at the car boot. If I'm really stuck with something I take it to a local motor guy who lets me use his hydraulic pullers.
All RS motors are rated at 1 hr I would have thought it would be continuous considering what there meant to do. I have used mine for long periods and it seems fine.
Next job was to remove the spindle, I had expected some trouble but it went really smooth. Just remove the end caps, remove the nut, remove the grub screw holding the pulleys on and then wack the end with a rubber mallet.

As you can see some one has been in before

IMG_1460 by robertsmark895, on Flickr

IMG_1463 by robertsmark895, on Flickr

IMG_1465 by robertsmark895, on Flickr

IMG_1464 by robertsmark895, on Flickr
 
I started cleaning some bits up



The bearings look a bit dodgy, the balls aren't very shiny



I put the pulley back on the spindle and stuck it on the lathe



 
to get the hinge pin out of the casting. I have tried penetrating stuff, heat and stilsons with a 4' pole. Any ideas any one?

 
DaveL":1u6iyt4r said:
Just a thought, is that screw nipping it in place?
Click to expand...

I'd certainly be tempted to take it entirely out. It could be one of those shafts that engages in a cut-out in the edge of the hinge pin, holding it in place. Even if it isn't, it's an extra place to put brake fluid/ penetrating oil in.
 
THanks chaps, I already got the red mist and gave it a wack with a hammer. Then thought better of it and went inside. The screw is loose, I have had the whole filled with penetrating fluid for a couple of days. I've only got a blow torch, do you think more heat would work better
 
It should only need enough heat for the differential expansion of steel and CI to crack the rust which I assume is holding it in. You don't want so much as to risk distorting the casting.

As I said before, try pressing it out from below with slow steady pressure while heating.

Bob
 
I managed to get the hinge pin out. I think the fit is almost an interference fit. I was using plusgas which is normally great for unjamming stuff. I left it soaking for a day more and then heated the casting up and gave the pin a bash. Once it had moved a bit then I new it was coming. I had to knock it alittle one way add more lube then the other.
I started cleaning some of the bolts up, not surprising they were a bit pitted. This lathe was the 15th out of the factory and dates to about 1936.





To do the collar I put on a turned piece of wood and bring up the tailstock. I had to use a flapper disc in the grinder to get the pits out and then through the grits to 600 before polishing





These are the bolts for the motor and were pretty pitted. I used my disc sander to clean the bolts



I then finish them off by hand on fine grit glued to mirror



The speed adjuster handle was broken, it must be a weak spot because I've seen loads with the same damage.



I plan on drilling holes on both pieces and inserting some small rod, then V out the edge and welding.
 
If you really want a nice finish on steel you take it down to 1200 before the polishing. It takes a while though. I think it took about 3.5hrs on these bits
 
Wallace , re those bolts and the collar which you have polished , on re-assembly , will those be painted ? if not how will you preserve the polished surfaces , will you simply grease them lightly ? .

Steve .
 
Hi Steve, for stuff that I polish I will use something like boeshield or renaissance wax
 
I had a go at welding the broken speed changer. I made it nice and hot then used my mig. Afterwards it went into the oven at gas mark 6.
This is part of the speed changer, the flat belt goes through the bars and when moved drags the belt to a different ratio





The tail stock has a few differences to my other RS tailstock





This grub locates into a slot in quill?



It all came to bits really easy

 
Heres the handle all cleaned up



I found some holes in the bed insert, any ideas?



 
One piece of advice I must pass on if your welding. Don't just use welding goggles like I did and then have a sunburnt brow and cheeks (homer) . Next one use the full automatic face shield your wife bought you a year ago which is still in its box on the shelf (hammer).
I've been prepping some castings ready for paint, there is a lot of original black filler which I have left and filled any voids with car bodge.
I have sanded a locking handle with a powerfile and then finished of by hand, this is down to 400 I went down to 800 and then buffed



The handwheel is cast and from experience they take a lot of work to look good. The ali ones are really easy. I put in on the lathe and use a flapper disc on a grinder before going through the grits to 800.
It took about 2hrs







 
Those helmets are superb. One tip with a new automatic welding mask. The battery is charged by the solar cell on the front and will possibly be flat having been in the dark for ages.
If you have one of those 500w work floodlights, just hold it in front of that for a minute to kick start the battery.
You can also check that the lcd is working as you can wear the mask and be able look straight into the lamp and see the detail of the filament with ease.
I learned stick welding at the local tech college in the 70s with a standard mask - very difficult for a beginner to strike up and get the mask under control.

Bob
 
I second that about using an ordinary mask - it's like playing "pinning the tail on the donkey" - hoping for a correct strike and being able to see! If not, an awful mess.

Rod
 
Looking good :)

It is amazing what you can recover to shiny condition!

I used to weld quite often at work. mostly MIG a bit of TIG and sometimes gas. Hardly ever stick as it is too slow and messy and our stuff was rarely thicker than 2mm. I'm used to using a mask with a clear window slit about 6mm high at the top. head down to see what you are doing, head up to weld. Clear glass over the tinted is enough to stop the UV so no burned forehead :)
 
To stop the bits that are not on show from rusting I thought I would try black oxide solution. Which is just an acid which causes black rust.

 
Am I right I thinking that those bits would not have been as shines when new? Not a critism I love watching what you are doing.
 
Andy the bits would have been bright from machining but not sanded down to 1000 and buffed
 
wallace":2jvbqk1q said:
to get the hinge pin out of the casting. I have tried penetrating stuff, heat and stilsons with a 4' pole. Any ideas any one?

Click to expand...
Wallace..perhaps you are already aware, but if not, try a 50/50 mixture of automatic transmission fluid and acetone for penetrating fluid. I have read that it is better than commercially available stuff. Wish I had known about it when I was a mechanic. BTW..very nice work! bill
 
Thanks Bill, I've heard of the acetone thing before but have not tried it yet. I keep forgetting. I normally use plus gas which normally works quite well.
I some how managed to drop the handle of the banjo and it broke (homer) To fix it I drilled and tapped each bit and then welded





This time I used my new face shield my wife bought me 12 months ago, so no burnt brow. I'm not the best welder but it ground down pretty well with just a couple of pin holes.

I thought I'd strip the motor, I tested it before and it is good.





The pulley support had not been taken off before and it was full of pretty clean grease.



I tried a puller on the pulleys and it moved easily and then stopped when it got to a collar on the shaft, it wouldn't budge so I looked closer.
The collar is pinned through the shaft.



 
The motor came to bits pretty easy.



I think this motor was originally an open motor which was adapted to be used for the lathe. The later lathes had an enclosed motor with fins.







Hoffman bearings



 
I plan on selling this once completed and to make it more attractive I think variable speed might be the cherry on top. The problem is that the motor is not dual voltage so vfd's are expensive. Is it possible to have the motor rewound to a different voltage (240) and then a vfd would be much cheaper. Of coarse if it costs £300 to rewind then its not cost effective.
 
Wallace , I am waiting in anticipation of seeing some more painted heavy castings - will you be using an undercoat ? , will you be spraying or brushing ? , just wondering .

Steve
 
Hi Bob theres a local motor guy who did the motor for my bobbin sander and it cost me around £120. That motor was the same hp 1.5. How do you alter the voltage when winding a motor?



Hi Steve I have been doing a lot of prep on the castings and then they will be sprayed with zinc primer and then enamel
 
wallace":14ump0p5 said:
How do you alter the voltage when winding a motor?
Click to expand...

They have to recalculate the number of turns of each coil but increase the thickness of the wire so that the lower voltage will still produce the same magnetic flux density as the original coils did. They also need to check that the extra volume of wire will fit into the stator slots.

Some places use two strands of thinner wire in parallel as it packs into the slots better.

Older designed motors tend to be a bit more generous with the quantity of iron in the stator and the slots are bigger anyway.

That is certainly a mates rates type of price compared to the re-wind shops round here. I'd get a quote from them before you decide which way to go. if you get them to put a 6 way terminal block in, then it can be left as a dual voltage motor for the purchaser to fit an inverter. Unless you buy one of the very cheap Chinese inverters off the bay, you are not likely to get your money back by selling it with an inverter ready fitted.

Bob
 
Bob i had mine rewound to 240 from 575 and what i did was just bring in the stator. that got the cost down to $350 Canadian dollars. there a little thinner by the pound than your pound so that about the price Mark paid over here but that is a bargain i think. most shops use invertor duty wire but it best to ask for it . lots of room for single wire in the iron core too and the shop did a real nice job for me don't you think.the shop is all old guys in there later years. I think Wadkin had in mind with there motor designs to able to wind it any voltage and frequency from a single core design. I'v seen some that were 25hrs and have two Wadkin machine that have been converted from that old grid 25hrs system we had here in Niagara falls Ont. what would that be a 12 poll motor? I think the market is single phase for these lumps and the RS sure is fine with speed control





jack
English machine
 
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