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Wall cupboards in a cold garage

AndyT

AndyT

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Andy
A friend has moved house and is setting up his new workshop in a detached garage. I've offered to help fitting some repurposed kitchen cabinets onto the walls. I'm pretty sure the walls are brick, with no cavity, and I think are probably a single skin, ie half a brick thick.

What's a good way to make sure the contents of the cupboards don't rust?

If the walls are sometimes damper than a dry room in a house, so there's a risk of damp through the cabinet backs, would it help to put sheets of rigid foam insulation behind them? Would vertical battens make more sense?

Or what else should he/we do?
 
French cleats will give you a gap between the cupboard back and the wall.
They are a good idea regardless IMHO.
 
Either would help, Andy, but I think a gap might be more effective than insulation.
 
TrimTheKing said:
Thinsulation against the wall, and an airgap behind the cupboard, best of both worlds!
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Thinsulation, if you read its blurb, requires an airgap both sides. It should never be hard up against a surface of any kind.
 
I didn't mean a brand name Mike, I more meant a thin layer of insulation against the wall then an air gap to the cupboard. Insulation may well need an air gap too as you say.
 
Are the walls damp from penetration from outside, or condensation from the inside ? If it is penetration from the outside, I'd NOT put insulation on the wall trapping water in the wall, but allow airflow by standing the cupboard off the wall, if you put insulation put it on the cupboard not the wall, consider a water repellent treatment on the outside of the wall. If it is condensation from the inside, good airflow won't help as that is where the water is coming from, insulation on the wall to stop the moisture laden air hitting it would be better.

Yes, I do live in a house with solid brick walls and a suspended wooden floor over earth...
 
Thanks everyone, that's really helpful.

I'll show my friend this thread. Then we just need to wait for the rain to stop for long enough to move a few things out onto the drive... Not sure when that will be!
 
One other suggestion is to add a small source of heat to each cabinet. Some used to use an incandescent light bulb. Today a string of LED's might work. Or a heat mat. Just enough heat to raise the relative humidity inside the cabinet above the dew point.
 
May I put forward one of those small bathroom extractor fan units? As an additional means of air flow.

I've got one running all the time since May/June last year due to a dampness/mould issue on some old kitchen units I'd installed in the back area of my workshop some years back. I'd inadvertently limited airflow and white (fluffy type) mould had built up over time on the insides of the units and underneath the kitchen worktop. Clearing it off and removing the damaged/soft units was I feel the reason I got pneumonia - even with using a face mask.

As he hasn't got any of the type of issue I had I wouldn’t think he'd need to run it continuously as I'm doing at the moment...

The cost of running it continuously has proven to be negligible.
 
I'm fitting a new shed next week (my Christmas present) to enable me to move all gardening equipment and other non-essential detritus out of the workshop in a vain attempt to actually enable me to do some woodwork in there...(I will also have a clear out), and to also give me and Barney somewhere to dry/air off our ice hockey kit after use, because SWMBO is quite rightly not enamoured with us using the spare bedroom ensuite, due to the fruity smell...

I fully intend to run a cable from the workshop out to the shed and fit some sockets, and at least one expelair type fan (maybe even two, one inbound and one out) to keep airflow through the shed, partly for damp and partly for stink removal...!
 
Accipiter said:
May I put forward one of those small bathroom extractor fan units? As an additional means of air flow.

I've got one running all the time since May/June last year due to a dampness/mould issue on some old kitchen units I'd installed in the back area of my workshop some years back. I'd inadvertently limited airflow and white (fluffy type) mould had built up over time on the insides of the units and underneath the kitchen worktop. Clearing it off and removing the damaged/soft units was I feel the reason I got pneumonia - even with using a face mask.

As he hasn't got any of the type of issue I had I wouldn’t think he'd need to run it continuously as I'm doing at the moment...

The cost of running it continuously has proven to be negligible.
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Yes mold spores are nasty, perhaps a nasal spray- the one I use over here is called Xlear. Certainly works to keep the passages clear.
 
Cabinetman said:
Yes mold spores are nasty, perhaps a nasal spray- the one I use over here is called Xlear. Certainly works to keep the passages clear.
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At first I didn't realise I'd got pneumonia until a few days later when I, eventually, managed to get an appointment with my GP becauseof the way I was feeling; shivering feeling cold but apparently had a hire temperature - al9ng with other unpleasant things.

He sent me off to the RUH in Bath to A&E - thankfully with an prearranged appointment so I wouldn’t be waiting goodness knows how long, for monitoring. Took an hour to get there - thanks to my daughter being sble to take me.

I had tests done and was given intravenous antibiotics and, eventually, discharged with some antibiotic tablets - and a nasal spray of some sort after getting my temperature somewhat lower.

I learned a lesson. I now have an AC going (on full speed) as well as a 'desk fan' blowing towards the AC - and use the dust/extractor cyclone unit when usingbthe machinery. I'm continually surprised at the amount of fine dust that the AC collects.
 
Cabinetman said:
The single skin garage might benefit from a dehumidifier, I ran one for quite a while in my workshop after a roof problem and was staggered by how much water it collected.
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That's another thing I run as well... 👍 good suggestion. They don't cost a lot to run either.
 
I'm kind of in a similar situation as I'm about to be making some built in wardrobes in an old house against a solid brick external wall.

I'm planning on leaving the backs of the wardrobes about 2" clear of the wall, the plinths at the bottom will have cut outs and the top will be short of the ceiling so hopefully good airflow will avoid any problems.

To date this approach has worked for me but there does seem to be different advice out there about if and where you should insulate behind cupboards.

I do always worry about these things and am going to fit the wardrobe backs from inside the wardrobes rather than on the back so they can be easily removed if needed.
 
Cabinetman said:
The single skin garage might benefit from a dehumidifier, I ran one for quite a while in my workshop after a roof problem and was staggered by how much water it collected.
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No, no, no and thrice NO! Unless the area is relatively airtight all you are doing is trying to dehumidify the surrounding countryside.
Accipiter said:
That's another thing I run as well... 👍 good suggestion. They don't cost a lot to run either.
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Sorry….see above. Pointless
 
Cabinetman said:
Well I disagree Roger, unless the garage is a colander and it’s reasonably closed up it will reduce the moisture level appreciably.
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I have been running an industrial dehumidifier in my shed for a few months now and am pleased with the results. I have a lot of cold cast iron and normally I am fighting the rust monster. It is adjustable for moisture levels and collects about 15l a week. It looks like it has added about £45 a month onto the electric bill.
 
Some good suggestions above. I work in an old drafty single skin unheated garage. The main thing I've found is if tools aren't wiped and oiled then they'll corrode especially when working on particular woods. When put in a drawer with lack of air flow, this is probably worsened. Humidity can be an issue though. Dehumidifier might be a good idea especially if the space is heated. We use one in our utility from time to time and they work well but not as well in my cold garage.

A tube heater is a nice low wattage heat source for inside cupboards/wardrobes etc but you do lose a bit of space.

Having said all that, I do use a light oil on metal tools very liberally.
 
RogerS said:
No, no, no and thrice NO! Unless the area is relatively airtight all you are doing is trying to dehumidify the surrounding countryside.

Sorry….see above. Pointless
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Hi Rog... I didn't mention that my workshop, although concrete block built, is lined on the outside with timber cladding and inside with OSB and upvc sheeting with double glazed windows and door.
 
One of the "specials" in my school woodwork class was annual tool maintenance. This involved polishing everything metal and not shiny with oil, rags and possibly fine wet or dry paper until it was, then leaving them with a thin film of oil. As you can never completely control the damp, this is worth it.
 
Sheffield Tony said:
One of the "specials" in my school woodwork class was annual tool maintenance. This involved polishing everything metal and not shiny with oil, rags and possibly fine wet or dry paper until it was, then leaving them with a thin film of oil. As you can never completely control the damp, this is worth it.
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I've noticed that polished surfaces resist rust also. I had an old morticer which had been left outside for a while, everything had a rusting except where you put your hand to pull, 70years of use had polished and worn the steel to the point it looked chromed. Maybe it was the oil from hands. It had certainly had some use, the 11/2" round bar was very bent.
 
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