wet rot

[StevieB]

*sigh* I have one of those little jobs that in the space of a day has turned into a massive problem, hampered by an inability to travel or source timber. I have a large bay window in my workshop/annex as seen in the photo below - taken about 6 years ago when we moved in



It is approx 12 feet wide and a good 8 feet high. And it turns out - rotten. It has always been out of square due to a tree being planted too close to the house in about 1850 and dug out (apparently) in the 1990's when the council we re told 'the tree goes or the annex building goes cos one is undermining the other'

I knew it needed attention but hadn't clocked how badly it needed it - turns out some of the timbers are held up by 150 years worth of paint and not much else..... in places I can poke my finger through, other places are as solid as the day it was made. So today I have been mostly chopping out rotten timber to scarf in good stuff and try to salvage the bay - I do NOT want to have to remake this from scratch and almost certainly couldn't - the main uprights on the corners appear to be one piece and have to have been 12" square before being shaped. Did I mention the house is Grade II listed?

Anyway - my question is - in places, the timber is not wet but a bit soft. To chop it all out is going to be a nightmare so I was looking at treating it with wet rot treatment to stiffen up parts before adding new timber. Course you try getting wet rot treatment in the current lockdown - hardly an essential item. Ronseal seems to be the most common brand, but nobody has it. I then came across Abatron Liquidwood from Axminster - bit pricey at £43 for 2 pints (?) but no reviews. So has anyone used this, is it any good, and as Axminster are still shipping any reason not to take a punt?

Guess what I shall be doing over the Easter weekend :evil:

 

[Mike G]

I really, really wouldn't go down that route. Grit your teeth and cut back to the good stuff, because filling and hardening wood just doesn't work in the long run. Faced with the choice of doing the job all over again in 5 years time, or doing it once, now, I know which I'd take.

Being Listed, you are entitled to make like-for-like repairs, as you know.

 

[Rod]

I tried the Ronseal system over a few years on a bay window. Cutting out the really bad which was replaced with wood and treating the rest.
It lasted about 12months before it had to be repeated. In the end it all got replaced with timber.

Rod

 

[StevieB]

Thanks both. Making repairs would be easier if I could source timber reliably this week - unfortunately that is not possible! I will keep chopping and see how far I can get before I fear for the structural supports or reach sound timber.

 

[RogerS]

I second what they've said above.

When making your joints do make sure that they are angled downwards to throw any water away and not into the wood. Apologies if grandma is egg-sucking!

If you're worried about structural stability then I'd be inclined to screw temporary braces across any weak spots until you scarf in the new stuff.

Is it softwood or hardwood ? Is there a Wickes near you. They are doing click and collect. Are British Hardwood delivering ?

 

[StevieB]

Thanks Roger.

I have found a local timber supplier who are doing collection, but they are closed until Tuesday.... currently chopping out the bad stuff and using my meager stock of hardwood to replace the cills and praying it doesn't rain until I can get more to finish the job. Cills are hardwood, the rest is pine. Have taken a few pics but will post in a few days time when I have something more attractive to show!

 

[AndyP]

Oh worts and all Steve. Don't just show us the finished job.

I still marvel at your workshop...with a bay window

 

[RogerS]

Oh worts and all Steve. Don't just show us the finished job.

I still marvel at your workshop...with a bay window

:text-+1: We like to see rot.

 

[StevieB]

As you insist - slowest project ever coming up, as SWMBO went into one yesterday on the state of the house so I spent the day mostly doing housework with her and the kids 'helping'.

No pictures of the rot but you can see what I have chopped away (far more than I wanted to, and still some tidying up on the uprights to do:





I then started at the base to try and get the cills done. I only have 4x2 hardwood available currently, so need to do this in 2 sections. The top is sloped to match the existing profile as far as possible:



Then just a question of fettling the second piece to fit as closely as possible, with filler in any gaps. Yes, I have screwed these to the existing as well as using polyurethane glue as I could not easily attach them to the brickwork. In an ideal world they would be 1 piece but needs must!







That is 2 days work and not a huge amount of progress, but I am pleased with it so far. Top tools - a multitool for chopping out timber, and a digital angle gauge for the tilt on the table saw!

 

[AndyP]

I'm no expert but I would say that appears to be coming along nicely and surely open windows like that take precedent over housework.

 

[RogerS]

Steve, you've done a very tidy job but I'm afraid that you're not going to like what I'm about to write.

If they were my windows then I'd have supported the top rail of the frame and cut out the complete bottom piece (at an angle rising from outside to inside). That way it would have been so, so much quicker both in (a) the removal of the rot (there's precious little meat left TBH) , (b) the never-ending fettling you've now set yourself up to do to match in all those faces and depths and (c) most importantly, minimised the number of faces where future water will get in. Because there will be movement between old and new and you need to minimise the number of ways water can get in.

 

[StevieB]

It would Roger, but I don't have the timber to replace everything below the middle rail! Round the other side I might even be able to save some of the cill as the rot is not so bad there, so it looks worse than it is. Having squared off some of the waste this morning I am currently patching the first corner upright. Photos to follow....

 

[StevieB]

Small update as I have spent half the day arranging with Army logistics to ship some of our scientific equipment to NI!

After squaring off the cut away timber I added some small off cuts to give myself a good face to work to, then cut down the legs of an old pine bed to give me some 90 x 90 timber to shape and patch in:





Bit of filler to get rid of the joins - bit more to do still, but getting there:



This has left me with the shaped outer frame, and I now need to make a fixed window to fit each opening. Fortunately this will come from 44 x 44 PAR which I have, and I managed to salvage all but 1 of the panes of glass (glass being another non-essential item in the current situation).

I realise it is not the 'right' way to do this, but I am not looking for a repair that will last another 100 years. I am putting this up as a 'good enough' job, warts and all. I don't have a spindle moulder, or the skills to mould by hand. I am looking to achieve no visible surface defects and having cut back to solid timber as suggested then proper painting and maintenance should be enough to keep this looking good. Structurally I am happy the bay is supported, it bears no roof weight and since it is lop-sided and was rotten anyway I am not making it any worse!

 

[RogerS]

Proper job, Steve. My God but it's bringing back memories of when I was patching up old Listed Building windows.

Are you going to use linseed oil paint ?

 

[StevieB]

Goodness no - I would like it to dry before the end of the Summer!

 

[RogerS]

Goodness no - I would like it to dry before the end of the Summer!

Ah but I know how to apply it now and it does dry quickly.