What type of joints should I use for this fish tank stand?

[Windows]

thanks, I tried loosening the nut on the depth stop I have and made the screw poke out as much as possible, and that gets the blade about 2cm above the deck of the mitre saw, not quite enough.

I think if I can find a longer headless bolt then I could make it work. But it would be difficult to do fine adjustment to get it just right, but not impossible.

I kind of wish I'd spent a bit more for the 80SJ, for the trench cutting and it has a bigger mitre fence, I want to make a zero-clearance fence for mine and it's doable but there's just a few small holes for screws on the fence vs the 80sj fence

I have the 80 SJL, the depth stop is very basic, but works fine. If you’re getting a track saw anyway, you could always do your depth-based cuts on that. Cutting lap joints with a hand saw (or hand saw & chisel) is also quick with a little practice.

 

[tennents]

Don't get oversensitive Dan. Mike is an architect and has pretty much built his own house.

what? He did a 'my way or the highway' goodbye for no reason. I didn't even respond other than to say that I expected it, and then I deleted the comment because I can't be bothered with that childish attitude. He might very well be an architect but he decided to ignore my reasoning for building the design I've chosen and just run away with his toys when I said no. It's a very standard fish tank stand design used by a lot of people. And come on, a butt joint isn't a joint? That's gas-lighting at best. So then I look like an ass for responding with a wiki page that shows the sky is blue.

I'm not gonna partake in negative banter like that and it's weird that you're even using the word 'over-sensitive' in this thread. We talking about emotions now? No reason for that. I appreciate the rest of your comment and will learn what I can from it, but I've done F**k all to Mike or anyone that would deserve people bringing topic of emotions into the thread.

 

[Bod1]

@tennents If you are any near Warwickshire, then you could come to me, I'll show you how to make Lap joints, they are not difficult, even bring your own handsaw, as that might need looking at to get the best from it.

Bod

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

@tennents If you are any near Warwickshire, then you could come to me, I'll show you how to make Lap joints, they are not difficult, even bring your own handsaw, as that might need looking at to get the best from it.

Bod

That's a very kind offer - nice one

 

[AJB Temple]

what? He did a 'my way or the highway' goodbye for no reason. I didn't even respond other than to say that I expected it, and then I deleted the comment because I can't be bothered with that childish attitude. He might very well be an architect but he decided to ignore my reasoning for building the design I've chosen and just run away with his toys when I said no. It's a very standard fish tank stand design used by a lot of people. And come on, a butt joint isn't a joint? That's gas-lighting at best. So then I look like an ass for responding with a wiki page that shows the sky is blue.

I'm not gonna partake in negative banter like that and it's weird that you're even using the word 'over-sensitive' in this thread. We talking about emotions now? No reason for that. I appreciate the rest of your comment and will learn what I can from it, but I've done F**k all to Mike or anyone that would deserve people bringing topic of emotions into the thread.

Well, you come to a site full of quite expert woodworkers, asking for advice, and then get defensive when it is offered. It won't endear you to many people. Here is what Mike means: a butt joint to woodworkers is hopeless. It has no inherent strength and requires no skill other than driving in a screw or nail. It depends entirely on the screw or nail and as many of us know, they can and do fail. The reason why your design is massively overbuilt is that it is a poor design that wastes a great deal of wood. The fact that you say several people have used it, does not make it either a good design, an elegant one or an economic one.

I can see that you know best though and I wish you well with your project.

 

[tennents]

Well, you come to a site full of quite expert woodworkers, asking for advice, and then get defensive when it is offered. It won't endear you to many people. Here is what Mike means: a butt joint to woodworkers is hopeless. It has no inherent strength and requires no skill other than driving in a screw or nail. It depends entirely on the screw or nail and as many of us know, they can and do fail. The reason why your design is massively overbuilt is that it is a poor design that wastes a great deal of wood. The fact that you say several people have used it, does not make it either a good design, an elegant one or an economic one.

I can see that you know best though and I wish you well with your project.

I wasn't being defensive at all, that's pure projection. Mike asked me why I won't take advice on the design and I did a lengthy reply explaining why. That he decided to take his toys (knowledge) and run away, and u calling me sensitive, defensive, etc is just on you. Not a single thing I've written is any of that. I also never claimed to know best. I don't want to cause offense but it really seems like the mental age of a few in here is below the age you're allowed a pint.

All my posts are related to woodworking and joints, screws, tools, none of whatever the bollocks you and Mike decided to inject. 'I can see you know best and wish you well with your project' is an oxymoron, no-one would say that unless they think they know best.

 

[Woodbloke]

Loads of excellent advice here Dan, but IMO you need to pick your way through it and find a method that suits what you want to build. I said earlier that having actually owned a large tropical marine aquarium I appreciate the massive amount of weight that the stand is going to have to support.

I'd advise using screws but not into end grain, plywood or nae; it's simply not good practice unless you use a thick cross dowel (bit of a broom handle say) to engage solidly on the screw threads. Don't also use pocket screws; again good in certain applications but not for this job. If you feel up to it, try a simple halving joint as Mike G suggested as only basic hand tools would be needed and that's probably all the jointing that you'd need to consider.

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is glue; as the stand is going to be near water and lots of it, make sure you use a waterproof adhesive - Rob

 

[marineboy]

I’ll just give my tuppence worth. My woodwork skills are very basic - many of the items I have made are simple frames clad in sheet material. Several posters have already mentioned that a simple box of ply screwed into corner pieces of CLS timber or similar will be more than adequate to bear the load of the fish tank. The suggestion of hiding the butt joints at the corner corners with L shaped moulding is excellent, being a quick and simple way of making the end result look good. It’s a shame Dan that you’ve formed an adverse opinion of the members of the group. I can only say, being a novice, that I’ve always found the knowledge of the members (and their willingness to share it) is both fascinating and helpful.

You may have noticed elsewhere on the forum a number of WIPs (works in progress) which personally I find the most interesting. Perhaps you could do a WIP on your project, how you went about it, the pitfalls and how you overcame them, and what you learned.

 

[duke]

With your calculated weight of 350kg I would make sure that your floor can handle this weight unless its on a concrete slab.
If on a floor system with joists and sub floor you may need to provide additional blocking etc.

 

[Andy Kev.]

Some years ago I contemplated building a stand for a largish tropical marine tank. When I calculated the weight of water that the stand would have to support my ghasted was flabbered! Water is incredibly weighty stuff so 'belt n'braces' however it's done is the way forward....don't underestimate how much weight the stand will have to withstand! - Rob

From what I've read of aquarium disasters i.e. the unexpected carpet-soaking burst in the small hours, I think that one of the most vital tools would be a spirit level. An unequal distribution of the weight can lead to great mechanical stress on the aquarium. A level longer than the length of the tank would be most useful IMO.

I'd also echo the support for Mike's #13 post.

As you say you are a beginner to woodworking, you might want to have a look at a decent book which covers all the joints. There are many but one which I found particularly useful was Illustrated Cabinet Making by Bill Hylton. The line drawings of the joints are very clear.

 

[AJB Temple]

I was thinking about this last night. If it were me, as a beginner (which I am not), making a very strong box, I would cut (or get cut from a shed store) the plywood (or MDF) first to exact size. Needs to be really accurate and the DIY sheds do a good job of this using their big vertical saw. If using 18mm as proposed, then I would glue and clamp the softwood "legs" to the end boards cutting them 18mm short at the top. This is to allow an 18mm lid to be dropped in flush so that no edges have to be dealt with. If desired, two other legs could be glued to the long sides at a central point. No joints required at all. I would probably make the front panel removable with four countersunk brass screws to give occasional access to the interior for electrical kit. I would also cover the ply or MDF ends with a thin wood strip prior to painting or staining. Pinned and glued on. Exposed ply edges rarely look good.

As this would be a rigid box (unable to twist because of the lid) and the fish tank is flush all round, all weight is transferred to the (hopefully strong enough) floor via the box. The box does all the work. I may well add a couple of bottom stretchers as well from softwood. Just glued and clamped. Helps to keep everything square and rigid especially if the front panel is removable.

All softwood cutting easily done with the chop saw that OP already has. Using a back stop to make sure all leg lengths are dead on.

 

[Andy Kev.]

He will also need to check that his saw blade is cutting square in order to get things plumb as I mentioned above. A block plane should easily cure deviations.

I like your idea of getting ply cut as that really would remove any need to fret about accuracy.

 

[Mike G]

I was thinking about this last night. ....

I wasn't. But your description is sensible, and pretty much what one or two of us suggested days ago, with the addition of your excellent idea of getting the pieces pre-cut. I would just say that the floor is certain to be strong enough (the tank is only the weight of 4 men). Much more important than strength in this whole exercise is stability. Structurally, this is a heavy weight balanced on top of a light column, making it potentially unstable, so it should be screwed to the wall. I would also add a thick rubber mat under the tank so that there are no pressure points on the glass bottom.

 

[AJB Temple]

OP last seen on Wednesday at 3.36. Appears to have departed. A shame as the thread was helpful.

 

[Accipiter]

To make your ½ lap joints use 2"x1"/3"×1" or 4"x1c and double up on the 1" to get the 2"... they won't be that size w or t because of being planned so about ¼" less all round.

You make the half lap by one length being shorter than the other by the width of the timber used. Take a look at the line sketch by @Mike G , image the half lap 2x2 being made from 2 pieces of 2x1. You can glue and screw together if you want but glue and pining will probably be strong enough with the 18mm ply over this timber "frame".

Your 18mm ply will strengthen it all up when the frame is glued and pined together. The end grains of the ply can have a piece of timber glued and pined to it to cover it - and the pine frame timber as well.

The 'depth cut' for the mitre saw is normally referred to as Trench Cut facility.

 

[Accipiter]

OP last seen on Wednesday at 3.36. Appears to have departed. A shame as the thread was helpful.

Hadn't seen your comment. Had I done I wouldn't have put my suggestion forward. Oh well!

 

[toolsntat]

Hadn't seen your comment. Had I done I wouldn't have put my suggestion forward. Oh well!

Fear not Frank, valuable input should anyone else seek guidance, thank you.
Cheers, Andy

 

[Accipiter]

Fear not Frank, valuable input should anyone else seek guidance, thank you.
Cheers, Andy

Thanks Andy. Pity I came across this thread too late to put forward my suggestion.

In the spirit you put forward I'll add that the same could be done using 18mm plywood *if* a table saw or plunge saw is available to cut appropriate widths and glue then together. Reminded of this again while re-watching one of Hooked on Wood videos for his workbench builds.

 

[fuse]

Ive been watching this from afar
Its not an unknown situation
It happened a lot on a beekeeping forum (that I abandoned after it became almost as toxic as diynot) where a newbie would want to embark on a journey off the beaten track ,refusing good advice that they asked for.
The beauty of the beaten track is there is plenty of assistance around when you fall.
I think a joint should be appropriate to its application,but he wanted to embelish something that should have been minimal.

Alien to many another example would be a beehive.
Fancy clever jointing is fantastic on display cases in the living room but on something that sits in a field with everything the elements can throw at it they are a liability
Ive been 'gifted' lots of kit where someone had been showing off their expertise at dovetail and box joinery ,but there has been so much material removed from each mating piece that it is weakened even before the moisture has found its way in.

The British Standard hive (aka the National) has been around for nearly a century
It was a simplified incarnation of the previous WBC but could be made easily and cheaply by anyone with basic tools and it guaranteed compatibility between makers products.
It makes use of a few simple mortice and tenon joints but Ive found even these are not strictly necessary with the advent of waterproof adhesive and modern screw technology.