• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

wizer's Workshop

I would have avoided 'wool' type insulation due to sagging. But assume the Batts don't have that problem. :eusa-think:
 
wizer":3342qeyn said:
I would have avoided 'wool' type insulation due to sagging. But assume the Batts don't have that problem. :eusa-think:
Click to expand...


I used batts - no sag!


IMG_1290.JPG
 
Always knew you were a bit batty, Malc ! :lol: :eusa-whistle:
 
I'm going around in circles with planning this frame. I'm sure I'm over thinking it but it's driving me nuts.

So I bought the insulation boards. They are 600mm wide. So I was going to go for 24" o/c 'advanced' framing. However, using 600mm insulation would surely put my centres at more than 25" centres. That prompted me to look at common insulation sizes and the other common size is 450mm, which surely would put centres at 495mm or 19+inches?

Are you expected to cut these boards down to fit common 16" or 24" centres or am I being really stupid and missing the point.

I realise that 16 or 24 centres is supposed to be so that your sheathing lines up halfway on a board, but why are they not making insulation boards that match this? Or do we do something different in Europe?

:cry: :(
 
Hi Wizer

I had the same quandary with mine and ended up spacing the centers wider than 600mm to fit the insulation. The knock on effect was that I had to then buy way more sheathing and plasterboard as the odd spacing didn't correlate with the standard panel sizes.

In hindsight I'd have spaced the centers on 600mm and cut the insulation. You'll save time (takes less time to cut just the insulation than cutting all the sheathing and plasterboard) and money (you'll be buying less sheathing and plasterboard).

Cheers
Hully
 
I'm glad it's not just me.

I see your point about making the sheathing line up. But isn't insulation more expensive than OSB? i.e am I not wasting more money in insulation off cuts than OSB off cuts? To a degree, I can re-use OSB for other things, but 45mm insulation off cuts aren't much use elsewhere?
 
Tom, you'll always get more out of each board if you turn the board horizontally and cut them that way. So each section of wall will have 600 high pieces of insulation. You can put expanding foam in any gaps.

Don't let the tail wag the dog. 645 centres is too much, and will stuff up your internal boarding. You can do 600 centres for the studs, but not more, but locate them to suit your cladding, and cut the insulation as I suggested above. I don't like to see it "jigsawed" together in a house, but for a workshop, it's no problem at all.
 
And, by cutting it horizontally, if you feel the need for a dwang half way up the wall then you have your place to locate it....just on top of the insulation .
 
Afternoon Tom

What are you using as a lining inside your workshop?

If you plan on OSB, don't forget that it comes in different sizes which are 8' X 4' (2440 X 1220) and 2400 x 1200 mm.

I'd suggest sourcing the lining boards and use the appropriate centres for you studding.

Cut your insulation to fit.

Cheers

Dave
 
I'd always work from the dimensions of the sheathing. Be aware this might be 1200 or 1220 wide and normally you leave a nails width gap between sheets say 2mm.
Many BMs are quite lax about their sheet sizes and what you get is not always what you order so stick to your guns and be there when it is delivered to check. Both cutting 20mm off every sheet and "stretching" sheets by 20mm is a pita.
Cutting insulation sheets down is normal practise and the trimmings can usually be fitted into other locations.

hth

Bob
 
My total area of PIR offcuts came to about 1 sheet.

My local recycling centre charges £3.60 per sheet for disposal.

Waste normally has to be factored into any job, so my waste came to the cost of one sheet (at seconds prices), and the disposal fee, which I thought in total was not bad.
 
Thanks guys. Makes sense. Measured the OSB and it's 1200

I'm laid up with my back this week (first time in a few years, so can't complain). So I'm trying to focus on getting everything ready, design wise, to start framing in a couple of weeks.

I'm very much torn on the dwarf wall idea. Part of me wants to learn brick laying, but part of me feels it's holding me back from starting.

Being that I'm going for 5x2 timber now ( have ended up paying less than 4x2's), will bedding the sole plate on standard house bricks be an issue? i.e the sole plate will be wider than the bricks.

Also, am I bonkers to consider doing away with the bricks and just building directly on the slab?
 
wizer":cs5la3r0 said:
Also, am I bonkers to consider doing away with the bricks and just building directly on the slab?
Click to expand...

Yes totally. You will take significant % years off the life of the building by not having a few courses of bricks.

Bricklaying to this degree is really easy. Start round the back so if it is a bit messy no one will see it and by the time you are round the front you will wonder what the fuss was about.

Bob
 
Good to know I'm bonkers :lol:

What about the 5inch timber on top of bricks issue? Is it just a case of overhanging on the inside of the brick and leveling it in the mortar?

Am I right in saying I've got to wait for weather consistently over 2 degrees night/day before I can lay brick.

The weather scare mongers are saying we're in for a freeze fest for a couple of weeks :shock:
 
Wizer,

I've never really done any proper bricklaying before and I've managed to lay 3 courses as the plinth for my 'shop, as well as some blocks. It doesn't look pretty, but it does the job.

I borrowed a concrete mixer, but found that in winter with short days, it was easier to mix just enough on one of those plastic mixing boards with less to clean up at the end of the day.

I had a mate who came in from time to time, and if he did the mixing in the mixer, I did the laying, and he cleaned up the mixer, I still laid the same number of bricks as if I mixed on the bard and cleaned up after me.

The trick is to get the mix right, with the right amount of plasticiser to make it really workable.

You will be able to do it, because the alternative, timber on concrete, just isn't viable.

BTW, I've never done any frame building, roof building, floor insulating etc etc before, but it's all part of the challenge and enjoyment of making your own cave.

Malcolm
 
Weather/Temperature - Yes, I think so.

My back wouldn't let me lay bricks every day, but I planned the laying for days over 5 degrees last winter.

I had a permanent tab open on my desktop of the Met office for my town.
 
wizer":3olvlstt said:
Thanks guys. Makes sense. Measured the OSB and it's 1200

I'm laid up with my back this week (first time in a few years, so can't complain). So I'm trying to focus on getting everything ready, design wise, to start framing in a couple of weeks.

I'm very much torn on the dwarf wall idea. Part of me wants to learn brick laying, but part of me feels it's holding me back from starting.

Being that I'm going for 5x2 timber now ( have ended up paying less than 4x2's), will bedding the sole plate on standard house bricks be an issue? i.e the sole plate will be wider than the bricks.

Also, am I bonkers to consider doing away with the bricks and just building directly on the slab?
Click to expand...

Put the overhang on the inside, Tom. It looks dreadful on the outside and you'll regret it forever. Inside you could line out the plinth with 25 insulation (or whatever fits), and bring your lining board down over this to floor level.

You MUST put it on a plinth. Get the mortar right and bricklaying is easy. Hell, if you weren't so far away I'd come and show you how.
 
Thank you.

I have a mixer (FIL bought one on a wim 2yrs ago and never used it) and a lackie (hopes Anita doesn't read this :eusa-shifty: )

I had the same thought of insulating the inside of the brick. That sounds like a good option. I'm buying a load of 20mm for the floating floor, so good use of offcuts.

ok, talked me around. :? :lol:

Next query. When running my internal cabling, should this go up under the noggins @ 1200 up from the ground? I guess, answering my own question, that's about right for where I want outlets and won't interfere too much with insulation. Do I need to sheild it/conduit?
 
I'd run cabling on the surface, Tom. That way you can extend, add to, re-arrange, whatever, at will. It's a workshop, not a house. You can put it in trunking, but I didn't even bother to do that. Buried in the wall means you have to get it right first time, and you are always going to worry when fixing things to the wall.
 
You could do like Frank Howarth did and incorporate a 12" wide horizontal strip in your internal boarding that hides all your electrics. I think his was about 4' up from the floor and secured with screws.

This would still allow you to access it in the future but keeps it away from any harm that may occur. (I'm a clumsy bugger so always whacking things with the ends of boards and it would be just my luck it would be something important I hit!)
 
will1983":n69cupma said:
You could do like Frank Howarth
Click to expand...

Funnily enough my question was sparked by his latest video that shows that.

I think I prefer the idea of it being surface mount. As Mike says, it makes it much easier to reconfigure. I may or may not put it in conduit, or indeed make my own 'trunking'.
 
wizer":2dkzst6x said:
.....

I think I prefer the idea of it being surface mount. .....
Click to expand...

:text-+1: I think that idea of 'burying' the cables like that is more trouble than it's worth.
 
I had two goes at surface mounting my electrics. You will still need to take account of where you expect to hang cupboards.
 
Wizer just a thought from my brick laying for a dwarf wall greenhouse. A cenent mixer can mix a LOT of cement, which puts the pressure on, and is a bit painful to clean up at the end of your session.

So my solution (tip from a bricklayer) was one of those big buckets end a paddle mixer from screwfix. You can mix enough for about ten bricks which would take me an hour to lay at the start, and it's a doddle to clear up.

Paul

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
 
paulrees1":11lg4ojc said:
Wizer just a thought from my brick laying for a dwarf wall greenhouse. A cenent mixer can mix a LOT of cement, which puts the pressure on, and is a bit painful to clean up at the end of your session.

So my solution (tip from a bricklayer) was one of those big buckets end a paddle mixer from screwfix. You can mix enough for about ten bricks which would take me an hour to lay at the start, and it's a doddle to clear up.

Paul

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

:text-+1:
 
paulrees1":1veomvv5 said:
..... and is a bit painful to clean up at the end of your session.
....
Click to expand...

Eh? Couple of buckets of water, some old broken bricks, turn it on, make a cup of tea, drink the tea, tip out the mixer.

Job done !
 
That's a very good suggestion, Paul, and how I mixed up mortar on a recent trip to Spain where I obviously didn't have access to my own kit. The only thing I'd say is that you'll need the purpose made machine for this, with two handles, and not the beater-thingy which fits in a drill. The latter wouldn't be man enough for mortar. I can imagine either hiring the tool, or buying it on ebay then selling it on when the job is done.

Ten bricks an hour might be realistic for building up corners using a spirit level, but "running in" with a line even a beginner will manage more than 40 bricks an hour.

Tom, there are two ways you can approach the brick laying: 1/ building corners, then the following day "running in" using a line pulled tight between the corners: or, 2/using profiles. These are essentially a post marked out at 75mm intervals (to the correct heights) set near the corners, between which you tension your line. They take more time to make (from battens/ off-cuts) and set up to the right line and height, but once they are in place you're off and running with the easiest form of brick-laying, "running in" with only a line to tell you where to place the brick. I much prefer the latter, as using a spirit level to plumb vertical when there are only two bricks, and they are both still moving about, is an annoying faff.

Oh, and cleaning a mixer is no hassle. Scrape it out when you take out you last load of mortar, spray it down with the hose, chuck in some broken bricks, and leave it running for quarter of an hour. Turn it out, spray down again quickly. The biggest argument against using a mixer (if there is one) is that the batch size might be too big for your first go at brick laying.
 
I’d given away my mixer so when I built my shed I mixed by hand - not that difficult. Use an old bucket as a measure or count shovel fulls. Mix dry ingredients together on a piece of old ply, form a basin in the middle, add water then carefully bring in the mix. Add more water as necessary.

Rod
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top