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Am I correct that Stanley have stopped making Nr 4’s?

C

Cabinetman

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I was answering a question over in the other place and wanted a pic of a new nr4, zilch zero came up and so I asked Ai when production stopped? 1967? Well that’s strange as I know I bought one in the mid 70’s. And I also bought one over here a couple of years ago from Home Depot (think B&Q) and they appear to have something similar for sale now but it’s not called a nr4, they refer to its length -9 3/4” and they are out of stock.
Am I just out of touch ?
 
Doug said:
Stanley list 2
www.stanleytools.co.uk

No. 4 Smoothing Bench Plane | STANLEY

STANLEY® 1-12-004 smooth plane bailey No. 4, multicolor
www.stanleytools.co.uk www.stanleytools.co.uk
www.stanleytools.co.uk

Sweetheart™ No. 4 Premium Bench Plane | STANLEY

Own a little piece of history, with a modern classic from STANLEY® - the STANLEY® “No. 4” Sweetheart™ Smoothing Bench Plane. Making great quality hand tools has been a STANLEY® tradition ...
www.stanleytools.co.uk www.stanleytools.co.uk
Click to expand...
Thanks Doug, but not readily available at all, and so much more expensive than two years ago. About £150, two years ago it was the equivalent of £30. Worked well straight off too.
Couldn’t see a price on those two btw.
Ian
 
Took a look via the two links out of interest. With the first one (top link) the page it goes to shows a BUY box. Clicking on that takes you to another site (web) that lists a number of suppliers (online or locally - two tabs to select from) showing in stock or out of stock. I clicked on ITS that shows it at around £57 (EXCLUDING VAT)... didn't try any others.
 
Accipiter said:
Took a look via the two links out of interest. With the first one (top link) the page it goes to shows a BUY box. Clicking on that takes you to another site (web) that lists a number of suppliers (online or locally - two tabs to select from) showing in stock or out of stock. I clicked on ITS that shows it at around £57 (EXCLUDING VAT)... didn't try any others.
Click to expand...
Thanks Frank, wonder why they’re expensive over here then?
 
Donald and his tarrifs? 🤷 Sorry Ian, no idea. I didn't check any of the others to see what prices may have been.
 
Strange i know I have seen them within the past few years (although technically the model number is like 12-136 or something). But now everywhere i look is out of stock so maybe? They also used to sell 2 block planes, a newer version of the 9 1/2 but really junky, and then a Sweetheart version.
 
It's a bit of a philosophical question, I think.

The company - apparently now Stanley Black and Decker after another merger - is not the same as the company most of us would have bought from in the past. Manufacturing will not have been in Connecticut or Sheffield - I think I remember reading that the revived Sweetheart range were being made in Mexico.

And I don't expect that the details of the design would closely match any no 4 any of us is familiar with.

So is there still an entity called Stanley making a no 4?

By the way, I did look at the spec in the link Doug provided. I was a bit perturbed by this "feature:" 🤔

  • Chrome carbon steel cutter hardened and tampered to retain a keen cutting edge
so I don't think I will be ordering one!
 
AndyT said:
It's a bit of a philosophical question, I think.

The company - apparently now Stanley Black and Decker after another merger - is not the same as the company most of us would have bought from in the past. Manufacturing will not have been in Connecticut or Sheffield - I think I remember reading that the revived Sweetheart range were being made in Mexico.

And I don't expect that the details of the design would closely match any no 4 any of us is familiar with.

So is there still an entity called Stanley making a no 4?

By the way, I did look at the spec in the link Doug provided. I was a bit perturbed by this "feature:" 🤔

  • Chrome carbon steel cutter hardened and tampered to retain a keen cutting edge
so I don't think I will be ordering one!
Click to expand...
Good point. Think the company went downhill in the late 60s or 70s and exponentially worse as time goes buy.
 
SteveMP said:
Good point. Think the company went downhill in the late 60s or 70s and exponentially worse as time goes buy.
Click to expand...
I was about to disagree a bit, then I remembered that you are probably talking about the US Stanley.

Over here, there were still some bright spots of investment in tool production into the 70s, and in my opinion (admittedly based on a very small sample) there were still good tools from the Sheffield operation available then, such as the blue and black plastic handled chisels.
 
AndyT said:
I was about to disagree a bit, then I remembered that you are probably talking about the US Stanley.

Over here, there were still some bright spots of investment in tool production into the 70s, and in my opinion (admittedly based on a very small sample) there were still good tools from the Sheffield operation available then, such as the blue and black plastic handled chisels.
Click to expand...
I have heard from various places that the US Stanley went downhill before as well. Also, not Stanley, but I purchased both Record 151 spokeshave and Marples bluechip chisels brand new in the 1990s, all made in Sheffield and they were still great tools. But new Marples stuff is kind of crap here, but I don’t see anything made in Sheffield over here. Ever since it merged into Irwin Marples or whatever it is now.
 
About seven or eight years ago, one of my German friends wanted a Stanley No. 62 low-angle jack plane for his son, who was training to be a cabinet maker. My friend couldn't find a new Stanley, so I agreed to order one from the U.S. Amazon and gift it to him.

When the plane arrived a week later, the quality of the casting and fitting of the machined parts was poor. The sole of the plane was not flat and the area around the mouth was significantly higher than the ends. One of the sides was not square with the sole and the lateral adjuster made horrible screeching sounds when trying to move it.

I returned the Stanley for a refund and gave my friend my unused Lie Nielsen No. 62 because I still had the original box and packing material. I ordered a replacement from LN. My friend's son was very happy with his gift. He might have been happy with the Stanley, but I thought it would have taken too much effort trying to beat a new Stanley into shape.
 
Woodbloke said:
That's a shame because these are and they're better than just 'good'. I have two, both vintage 'British Racing Green' planes in pristine condition:

View attachment 59198


..... with the rather good, hand forged O1 cutter as well as a later Block Plane - Rob
Click to expand...
Oh Clifton stuff is great! I “could” technically mail order one from a specialty woodworking store, but not something normally in stores here and cost more than Lie Nielsen or Veritas. What i did just find looking at our local hardware store, is that there is a Stanley #4 that i can order but its the kind thats like the new crappy 151 spokeshave but in a hand plane shaped body:


This is the plane that they carry in stock and it’s absolutely garbage:

[https://www.homedepot.com/pep/Buck-Bros-9-in-Bench-Plane-120C4/100351888
 
I think maybe I have a different attitude to woodworking, whilst I enjoy it and it’s challenges a lot, I see it as a means to an end really, if I hadn’t moved across the World I wouldn’t have bought any new tools much since I started properly in the 70’s, all the bespoke furniture I’ve made over almost a lifetime has been done with the same Stanley Bridges nr4, I’ve never felt the need of another plane, this means that I’ve never come across the lessening in quality. Such a shame, that plane @Mike decribed sounds horrible.

SteveMP said:
Oh Clifton stuff is great! I “could” technically mail order one from a specialty woodworking store, but not something normally in stores here and cost more than Lie Nielsen or Veritas. What i did just find looking at our local hardware store, is that there is a Stanley #4 that i can order but its the kind thats like the new crappy 151 spokeshave but in a hand plane shaped body:


This is the plane that they carry in stock and it’s absolutely garbage.

[https://www.homedepot.com/pep/Buck-Bros-9-in-Bench-Plane-120C4/100351888
Click to expand...

Yes, particularly that first one! Terrible.
This is the one I bought Two years ago, almost as good out of the box as my 70’s everyday workhorse.
Ian

 
Cabinetman said:
I think maybe I have a different attitude to woodworking, whilst I enjoy it and it’s challenges a lot, I see it as a means to an end really, if I hadn’t moved across the World I wouldn’t have bought any new tools much since I started properly in the 70’s, all the bespoke furniture I’ve made over almost a lifetime has been done with the same Stanley Bridges nr4, I’ve never felt the need of another plane, this means that I’ve never come across the lessening in quality. Such a shame, that plane @Mike decribed sounds horrible.



Yes, particularly that first one! Terrible.
This is the one I bought Two years ago, almost as good out of the box as my 70’s everyday workhorse.
Ian

Click to expand...
I’ve only ever seen that particular Stanley at Rockler Woodworking back when Stanley brought back their 750 chisels (i think called Sweetheart Chisels), and the anniversary tape measure and some other stuff that was decent quality. But once Rockler got their own Benchdog planes (which i think are made by the same company as Rider tools at Axminster) they stopped carrying Stanley stuff. I also seem to remember that Stanley 4 costing over $100, like 125 or so. That seems really cheap there
 
By the way, in the US, the Jorgensen planes at Lowes are actually decent for the money. I think the smoother is around $70. With a couple of hours of fettling and tuning it can be a decent smoother. The little block plane and the 60 1/2 is also decent for the price. Ugly orange but oh well
 
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