Haul of hand planes

[Lons]

I've been gifted these today by an 85 year old lady who says they belonged to her joiner father, need quite a lot of tlc but I'll enjoy that part. The 2 little infill planes look interesting especially the Robert Sorby

 

[Doug]

That’s a great haul Bob, nice one

 

[Lons]

That’s a great haul Bob, nice one

I won't tell you what my wife said Doug. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[AndyP]

Looks like you’ve got you work cut out to smarten those up. What is the plane in the middle of the right hand column?

 

[Windows]

What a great gift. Congratulations!

 

[Lons]

Looks like you’ve got you work cut out to smarten those up. What is the plane in the middle of the right hand column?

It's a Record 078 Andy, I already have one I restored a while ago.

The little wood infill plane (if that's what they're called), isn't marked apart from the blade which is probably original and stamped Tho. Ibbotson and an image a bit like a pair of headphones so I'll need to look that up.

 

[AndyT]

It's always good to hear of old tools finding their way to a good home where they will be appreciated.

I'm no expert on infills, but the screw on the one with the lever cap is distinctive. It may well be by the great Scottish maker, Mathieson. Some people have speculated that the shape is a reference to a "Saracen's hat" - Mathieson were at the Saracen Works in Glasgow.

What a lovely lot to be given!

 

[Lons]

I haven't looked at them properly yet Andy, she's a lovely old lady and I've helped her out a few times with small jobs and advice since her husband died, she is Welsh and that's where her father was so would have bought the tools locally just as he could afford them.

 

[Trevanion]

Looks like there's a Record 0113 Compass Plane too? That's a very desirable plane.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265823938617

 

[Lons]

Looks like there's a Record 0113 Compass Plane too? That's a very desirable plane.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265823938617

Yeah there is a compass plane and it looks in reasonable condition. I had one for years boxed and pristine but in a moment of madness I parted with it about 5 years ago :shock: I can be a real idiot sometimes.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Nice lot. They don't look to be in bad condition - I bet if you cleaned them and did nothing else the picture would look very different. I've seen carriage rebates fetch quite good money.

 

[AJB Temple]

Why is the compass plane very desirable? Was it designed for coopers really?

I have one that was given to me by an ex girlfriend - her father had used it when making a small boat, but in 20 years I have never found a use for it. It can be curved both ways and is fiddly. Kunz (Germany) make a replica.

 

[AndyT]

Why is the compass plane very desirable? Was it designed for coopers really?

I have one that was given to me by an ex girlfriend - her father had used it when making a small boat, but in 20 years I have never found a use for it. It can be curved both ways and is fiddly. Kunz (Germany) make a replica.

This wouldn't have been a cooper's tool. It's far too fiddly, fragile and show. More useful to a cabinetmaker making things such as kidney dressing tables or curvy fronted drawers. Or even to someone making a bed with a curved rail.

The value is as a collectable. An expensive plane when new, not needed by every site chippy or DIYer, therefore rare, especially if complete and unbroken.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I have a very nice Stanley Victor compass plane. A nice tool, but a pig to set to work anything like well.

 

[Trevanion]

They're brilliant for planing anything with a true arc to it, like the templates for spindle moulding curved window heads and such.

 

[AndyT]

I've had a look at what Simon Barley's book says about your saw.

The Sanderson family were important steel makers from 1776 onwards. The merger with Newbould was in 1900; in 1960 a later merger changed the name to Sanderson, Kayser Ltd. They made huge numbers of saws under their own name and also for many other manufacturers/merchants.

Looking at your saw I'd be deliberately vague and guess that it could be about a century old, give or take a bit. Still plenty of life in it too.

 

[Trevanion]

The Sanderson family were important steel makers from 1776 onwards. The merger with Newbould was in 1900; in 1960 a later merger changed the name to Sanderson, Kayser Ltd. They made huge numbers of saws under their own name and also for many other manufacturers/merchants.

I wonder if those Sandersons were the same as "Drabble Sanderson" also? I can't find any immediate links from a quick look online.

Sanderson Newbould had quite questionable advertising practices by modern standards! From "Saws: Their Care and Treatment, 1921"



I think I may have more advertising elsewhere, I know I definitely have a bit of Drabble Sanderson.

 

[Cabinetman]

Nice! And middle on the left, I haven’t seen one of those rebate planes in years. Suspect a lot didn’t survive being dropped.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

^^^^ I had three at one time. I've still got one.

 

[Lons]

Thanks guys that Sanderson info is very interesting indeed.
The old lady said her father was a joiner from leaving school and I would think a decent tennon saw would have been an early purchase, she remembers him saying that the company provided tools and took payment weekly from his wages so as she's 85 it would make sense that it is that old.

 

[toolsntat]

Very nice to be gifted things and what a nice collection of planes this is.
As said Record compass planes don't get seen all that often and as yet one has eluded my in box.
Do I see a Stay-set smoother above it?

The Chariot plane looks in very good order and would be interesting to see if it's a dovetailed or cast body.

Dare I say the dovetailed smoother underneath it, for me, has every possibility of being a Norris or Mathieson?
It's not always the case that the lever cap was marked on the front with Norris and if you look at the back/inside surface it could be showing there.

A very careful look at the edge of the toe end sole might also say steel, this was also indicated on Mathieson planes along with their trademark on the front infill.

If you look on the surface of the bed there may be a number and is so it is also possibly on the back of the lever cap and also (if original) the iron and chipbreaker.
Looking forward to seeing what you find.
Cheers, Andy

 

[Woodbloke]

This wouldn't have been a cooper's tool. It's far too fiddly, fragile and show. More useful to a cabinetmaker making things such as kidney dressing tables or curvy fronted drawers. Or even to someone making a bed with a curved rail.

The value is as a collectable. An expensive plane when new, not needed by every site chippy or DIYer, therefore rare, especially if complete and unbroken.

I have an absolutely pristine one of those things which I bought many years ago 'thinking' :eusa-whistle: I might have a use for it. Alas not, it's never taken any sort of shaving in anger. The danger with these early compass plane is that they may not have been stored flat and thus the very thin steel sole would be cracked; mine is as good as the day it was made.

On our way back from Whitby yesterday, we called into see Matthew at Workshop Heaven in Banbury and as I could have foretold, it put a sizeable dent:



...in SWIMBO's credit card - Rob

 

[Trevanion]

On our way back from Whitby yesterday, we called into see Matthew at Workshop Heaven in Banbury and as I could have foretold, it put a sizeable dent in SWIMBO's credit card

Let us know how you get on with that Rob.

I was looking at the Lie Nielson 60 1/2 at Classic Handtools' website recently, £200! I'm pretty sure you could pick one up new for less than £140 a couple of years back.

 

[Woodbloke]

On our way back from Whitby yesterday, we called into see Matthew at Workshop Heaven in Banbury and as I could have foretold, it put a sizeable dent in SWIMBO's credit card

Let us know how you get on with that Rob.

I was looking at the Lie Nielson 60 1/2 at Classic Handtools' website recently, £200! I'm pretty sure you could pick one up new for less than £140 a couple of years back.

Will do! I bought a 'Friday afternoon' Cliffie block plane from CHT a couple of years ago where the bed hadn't been machined true, so the blade was always wonky (good technical term). I sent it back and got a full refund but I asked Matt to open the box and check this one personally, which he was happy to do; this one is perfick.
I also mentioned that he would be very welcome if he were ever to join WH2 as all the old lags (moi inc) that were 'somewhere else' :eusa-whistle: had jumped ship a while back; he also definitely didn't like the current spammy format - Rob

 

[Lurker]

I trust that we are going to get WIPs for each fettle up that you do Lons?

 

[AndyT]

I trust that we are going to get WIPs for each fettle up that you do Lons?

Me too. As someone who has gently cleaned up "quite a few" old planes, I'd be interested to watch along.

 

[Lurker]

….. and of course we need a in depth review of your sharpening methods

 

[Doug]

:lol:

 

[Dr.Al]

I was looking at the Lie Nielson 60 1/2 at Classic Handtools' website recently, £200!

I (almost) got one of those Lie Nielsen block planes for free a few weeks ago. I ordered a saw from Classic Hand Tools and they put the block plane in the box with my order by accident. They were quite pleased when I rang them and told them it was there...

 

[AndyT]

The Sanderson family were important steel makers from 1776 onwards. The merger with Newbould was in 1900; in 1960 a later merger changed the name to Sanderson, Kayser Ltd. They made huge numbers of saws under their own name and also for many other manufacturers/merchants.

I wonder if those Sandersons were the same as "Drabble Sanderson" also? I can't find any immediate links from a quick look online.

I don't think they were the same, but I can't claim to have looked very hard, just noticed that Tweedale and Barley both refer to several Sandersons in Sheffield and say that the family history is complicated.

However, at risk of derailing Lons' thread just a bit further, I did spot this bit of information, giving you a steer on some more obscure publications to add to your specialist wood machining library:



Or do you already have the D&S Saw Doctor's Handbook, and a complete run of Saw Mill Magazine and The Mermaid?

 

[Lons]

I trust that we are going to get WIPs for each fettle up that you do Lons?

It might take a while, I have history of taking forever to get things done, my sailing ship has stalled until the winter months for example.

 

[Lons]

Derail the thread as much as you like Andy, I for one find it very interesting. :eusa-clap:

 

[Trevanion]

Or do you already have the D&S Saw Doctor's Handbook, and a complete run of Saw Mill Magazine and The Mermaid?

I don't have any sadly, if you had read my thread you would know this

I've only ever seen one copy of the Saw Mill Magazine, and that's the one that's currently on eBay for the extortionate sum of £75+.

 

[AndyT]

Ok, Dan, I had checked the thread, I wasn't sure if everything was listed there or just the highlights.
And I found that listing on eBay too. I can't imagine anyone wanting a single issue of a 1925 technical bulletin badly enough to pay that much for it.

 

[Trevanion]

Ok, Dan, I had checked the thread, I wasn't sure if everything was listed there or just the highlights.
And I found that listing on eBay too. I can't imagine anyone wanting a single issue of a 1925 technical bulletin badly enough to pay that much for it.

Ah, I was just joking Andy :lol:. I think for the most part everything is there, I try to keep it up to date as and when I get stuff. I was thinking about doing a "Vintage Carpentry and Joinery Books" thread too as there's a fair amount of them now, but it's less of a niche than the Wood Machining books.

The fella is quite optimistic with his pricing, he has quite a nice C.D. Monninger covered "Collin's Woodworkers Diary" which would fit nicely in my collection but he won't budge on price (though it was originally £70, it has dropped to £55 since) because it has sentimental value to him. I offered what I thought was a fair price and arguably over what anyone else would pay for it considering the only real collectible component of the booklet were the C.D. Monninger covers, there are some interesting-looking tidbits in there but the majority of the book is blank diary pages. It's not like a fully fleshed-out catalogue or anything like that.

 

[Lons]

Finally got to look closer at the planes after a busy few weeks and the infill plane is very rusty so I'm not sure how it will work out however I'm going to try and will keep it however it turns out as I'm sure O can make it a useable plane, what is disappointing though is the state of the blade, it's got a pristine stamp but the damn thing is completely worn out as you can see from the pic. It's 2 1/4" wide and about 5mm (3/16ths") parallel. No probs I thought and dug out a knackered wood smoother with a reasonable Mathieson iron but it's 2" and tapered. :eusa-doh: So time to do some ebay bidding methinks.

 

[AndyT]

Well, you've got enough to get you started!

Unfortunately, vintage parallel irons always were special and dearer, so there aren't many around.

Do you know what you want to do with the plane? If it's to keep or sell as a collectable, the old iron would do.

If you want the plane to use, you might get lucky with an old one, but plenty of people manage to make their own. And making a parallel iron from flat ground stock is easier than making a tapered one.

 

[Lons]

Thanks Andy
Assuming I can get it in reasonable condition I'd rather get pleasure from using it than just admiring it on a shelf, I have a feeling I might have to take the metal back much further than I'd want because of the rust damage so wouldn't be much of a collectable if I do. There are quite a few suitable irons around in that size and even a 2 1/2" could be ground down so I should be able to find something. I could make a new iron but would prefer an old one though I have considered borrowing a mates' MIG welder cutting up an old chisel and welding it to the old blade, might work but likely not worth the effort.

The plane has no markings on the body except the number 10 stamped into the infil behind the blade and a name H. Whetzel stamped neatly across the wood which I assume was the owners name.

Pic below show the worst side which isn't good, the sole is mostly just surface rust I think.

 

[Lons]

OK no wip and sorry guys but I've taken it further than I'd have wanted due to the amount of rust so I scraped off as much as I could, applied rust remover which was only partial successful and resorted to a wire wheel, not happy so wet and dry 180 and 240g, not exactly sympathetic restoration.
I couldn't remove the screws holding the infills and can't even find the one holding the brass lever cap, the rear rosewood is intact but the front has been partly replaced with a piece of mahogany and doesn't fit well so I might replace that. Apart from cleaning up with finer abrasive, cleaning and oiling the brass and wood I'll leave it at that.
The blade is another matter, apart from being worn out it catches tight to the front of the mouth so doesn't work anyway in it's current state, I bought a cheap job lot of irons off ebay hoping they might be a parallel blade but alas no however I tried a tapered Lewis in the plane and it works ok so will see how it goes, as I said I want to use it not collect. Also the cap iron has been filed down to fit in the plane so I guess it isn't original.

Just to balance out my heavy handed approach a little here also are pics of a nice big ol 18" screwdriver which was pretty rusty but I only lightly cleaned. Henry Osborne Newcastle so local to me and a company I've bought from in the past.

 

[AndyT]

That plane did look rather far gone. Getting it back to being a usable tool is far better than letting it continue to rust and rot.