Hully's Workshop Build - Summer Update

[Hully]

Looking great Hully, any further progress…?

Cheers
Mark

Cheers Mark.

Christmas (and the run up to it with parties etc) has slowed me down but I've made some progress. I now don't go back to work until 9th Jan so hoping to get the roof and ceiling all framed up in that week ready for cladding in January. Lets hope the weather holds

Cheers
Hully

 

[9fingers]

I think I'd stick to the same spacing as your walls for the rafters so the load is passed directly down the verticals. With a building this size, it won't take much more timber compared to 600 centres.

Possibly worth a quick sanity check on where the joints in your roof decking will fall and making a few fine adjustments to spacing if needed to reduce waste.

refining the fit of insulation can be done with offcuts or foam depending on which insulation type you are using.

Bob

 

[Dan0741]

Hully, I cant offer expert advice but I was quite liberal with the foaming gun after fitting my celotex, it hides a multitude of sins and probably makes for a more effective seal however well the framing and insulation is done. Its warm as toast now and seems to retain heat really well. You are making really good progress given the time of year, it doesn't make life easy!

 

[Mike G]

.......1) I was planning on putting the roof rafters and ceiling joists on 600mm centres but having read around 400mm seems to be far more common. As this is only a workshop I had assumed 600mm would be OK but now having second thoughts. What do you guys think?.

Unless you are on the limits of your roof's structure, (which is only likely if you are using a tiled roof) then 600 is fine for a workshop. I'm pretty sure that's what mine is.

2) The insulation I'm planning on using comes in 400mm wide panels so rather than use 400mm centres on the wall I used 440mm so the gap between each joist would be 400mm. I'm now wondering if this is a balls up as I'm guessing the gap needs to be smaller to ensure a tight fit and good "seal". It's obviously too late to change the walls but just trying to work out if this is likely to be an issue or not.

What sort of insulation are you using?

Your bigger problem is going to be cutting all the sheathing board to suit the odd centres: more work and more expensive wastage than in trimming a bit of insulation.

 

[Hully]

I think I'd stick to the same spacing as your walls for the rafters so the load is passed directly down the verticals. With a building this size, it won't take much more timber compared to 600 centres.

Possibly worth a quick sanity check on where the joints in your roof decking will fall and making a few fine adjustments to spacing if needed to reduce waste.

refining the fit of insulation can be done with offcuts or foam depending on which insulation type you are using.

Bob

Cheers Bob. Definitely seems sensible to stick to 400mm on the rafters to transfer the load.

 

[Mike G]

.........Cheers Bob. Definitely seems sensible to stick to 400mm on the rafters to transfer the load.

If you are going to have a different rafter spacing or placing compared with your studs, then you need a doubled-up top plate. In other words, each rafter should be directly above each stud, and if they aren't, then you need a double top plate.

 

[Hully]

Hully, I cant offer expert advice but I was quite liberal with the foaming gun after fitting my celotex, it hides a multitude of sins and probably makes for a more effective seal however well the framing and insulation is done. Its warm as toast now and seems to retain heat really well. You are making really good progress given the time of year, it doesn't make life easy!

Hi Dan, it was a very neat job you did with the foam gun!! I'm planning on using Rockwool so not sure foam is a good idea. I think it'll need to be offcuts as Bob suggested. I watched a Rockwool installation video today and they weren't stuffing it in the spacing so 400mm "cavities" might be OK. I guess there'll need to be some trial and error.

Weather so far hasn't been too bad to keep everything crossed for me

 

[Hully]

.......1) I was planning on putting the roof rafters and ceiling joists on 600mm centres but having read around 400mm seems to be far more common. As this is only a workshop I had assumed 600mm would be OK but now having second thoughts. What do you guys think?.

Unless you are on the limits of your roof's structure, (which is only likely if you are using a tiled roof) then 600 is fine for a workshop. I'm pretty sure that's what mine is.

2) The insulation I'm planning on using comes in 400mm wide panels so rather than use 400mm centres on the wall I used 440mm so the gap between each joist would be 400mm. I'm now wondering if this is a balls up as I'm guessing the gap needs to be smaller to ensure a tight fit and good "seal". It's obviously too late to change the walls but just trying to work out if this is likely to be an issue or not.

What sort of insulation are you using?

Your bigger problem is going to be cutting all the sheathing board to suit the odd centres: more work and more expensive wastage than in trimming a bit of insulation.

Hi Mike

Thanks for the advice. The Plan is to use tiles so 400mm centre's seems sensible. I saw your comment below about the double header. Overall the rafters should sit over the studs but on the front wall I have the door and window so would need the double header there presumably.

This is what I have so far which I'm pretty sure is what would be classed as a double header? Does this cover it?



The Insulation I'm planning on using is Rockwool. Its a very good point about sheathing wastage...never mind, I'lll remember for the next build

I managed to get the ceiling joists up today, terrible photo but it was raining so couldnt be bothered to get wet. Will take a better one once some of the rafters are up...hopefully tomorrow.



Cheers
Hully

 

[chataigner]

Looking good ! :text-bravo:

 

[Hully]

Progress ground to a halt last week as I ran out of fixings and the ones ordered before Christmas still haven't been delivered meaning I lost 2 days which was pretty frustrating.

But I did manage to make some progress. The rafters on the gable ends are up, as are the stud extensions on the gable ends. Half the rafters are also up and temporarily secured in place. The rest of the rafters are cut ready to go so it should be a quick job to finish off...hopefully. Here is what it looks like at the moment.



I'm hoping to get the framing finished this month, so thats the remaining rafters, blocking, final noggins and reinforcing the ceiling joists.

I'll then wrap the building in preparation for the cladding and tiling. I'm thinking of using this breathable membrane to wrap both the walls and roof. Does anyone see an issue with using this on both as its only advertised for the roof?

https://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk/pro ... -x-1m.html

Cheers
Hully

 

[9fingers]

I suppose that membrane for roofing does not need to be so strong as that designed for walls as the latter has to support its own weight completely but realistically, for a single storey structure and careful owner-builder use, I cant image there would be a problem.

Mike might know chapter and verse on the subject?

Bob

 

[Hully]

I suppose that membrane for roofing does not need to be so strong as that designed for walls as the latter has to support its own weight completely but realistically, for a single storey structure and careful owner-builder use, I cant image there would be a problem.

Mike might know chapter and verse on the subject?

Bob

Thanks for the response Bob.

Both Dan and Mike seem to use the same membrane for both roof and walls so perhaps I'll PM them to check and see what their view on it is.

Cheers
Hully

 

[Hully]

Framing is finished!!!...kinda, still need to do the blocking but that doesn't count This is how we're looking so far. Ignore the overly long roof joist on the end, it needs to be cut to length.



Pretty happy with it so far, so now onto wrapping the walls in membrane and putting up the battens and trim pieces ready for the cladding which is my next major job.

Cheers
Hully

 

[Malc2098]

Coming along nicely!

 

[Dan0741]

Hully great work matey. Just a couple of pointers that helped me, and might help you. I faffed about with the window and door trim and should have done what you are doing, ie install at framing stage. However what i would say is that i have moved mine a couple of times for various reasons, door install, cladding etc. On this basis it might be worth screwing and not gluing so you can move them in or out depth wise dependent on other variables before final positioning.

Also bear in mind that the framing you have just finished is the skeleton for the whole structure. I had to install extra framing retrospectively so that I could end up with the cladding fixings in the places I wanted. This applies to both internal and external cladding. One of the bits I missed, and was pointed out by a helpful Terry was the fact that when framing a corner one needs an upright on both aspects that one can screw/nail into. Also if you can help it moving the fixings of your cladding further than 100mm from the cladding ends if you are using timber will be helpful.

I have also retrospectively installed a fireplace in mine, and therefore needed to alter some of the framing to accommodate the hearth etc. It would have been much, much easier to have done this at the time I framed rather than afterwards. Im currently doing the internal cladding, and vapour barrier etc, and had I spent some time thinking all this through first it would have saved me considerable amounts of time.

Im a bit jealous in honesty, I loved the framing stage :mrgreen:

 

[Hully]

Thanks Gents

Dan - thanks for the advice mate, always gratefully received.

Totally agree on the use of screws/removable fixings for the trim. I had to get the reciprocating saw out a few times to cut through the ring shank nails I was using for the framing so learnt the hard way. I'll use screws wherever possible now that the structure is up and strength isn't the primary concern.

I'd had that thought about additional timbers for fixing trim, cladding etc so I've added in extra noggins in the corners (which you can see in the picture above) to fix the battens, corner boards and internal OSB sheathing. They're on 400mm centres so should provide enough support to stop any flexing in whatever I attach to them.

Not sure I'll be able to nail the cladding 100mm in from the edges but I'd planned on pre-drilling like you did so presumably nailing closer to the edge won't be a problem?

Cheers
Hully

 

[Hully]

Just thinking about what I wrote above and it's just dawned on me that the extra noggins will be OK for the corner boards and OSB sheathing but they wont be for the battens as the cladding nails will need to bite into more than just the 20/25mm batten. They need to go through the batten into a stud...

Once the corner boards are up I'll need to work out where the batten nearest the corner will go and then retrospectively add in some additional supports for them...while avoiding tearing the membrane.

Fun times ahead!! :eusa-think:

 

[Tusses]

My fav part of any build is the stick framing !

 

[AndyP]

Framing is finished!!!...kinda, still need to do the blocking but that doesn't count This is how we're looking so far. Ignore the overly long roof joist on the end, it needs to be cut to length.



Pretty happy with it so far, so now onto wrapping the walls in membrane and putting up the battens and trim pieces ready for the cladding which is my next major job.

Cheers
Hully

Hully, I think you may have either moved or deleted this image on photobucket.

 

[Hully]

Thanks Andy. I was organising my photos into folders...oops.

I've re-imported the latest photo, new photos will be linked properly.

Cheers
Hully

 

[AndyP]

OK Mate,
do you realise that all the earlier photos on the earlier posts have gone the same way?

great progress BTW. You should be right pleased with yourself.

 

[AndyP]

Off topic posts relating to organising images on hosting sites moved to Woodmanglers Retreat

 

[Hully]

Hi All

Its been a few weeks since I updated the thread so apologies for the radio silence. A combination of socialising and bad weather has slowed progress but I've managed to push on a bit.

The membrane is now up despite Doris' best attempts at ripping it off while I was at work on Thursday. I've also attached the insect mesh and battens on 3 of the walls. I think I've got another two weekends of putting up battens and trim before I'll be ready for cladding.

Updated picture below.

I'm a bit worried about the battens so hoping for some opinions. I resawed the battens out of some old PT 45x45mm I had from my previous workshop. Its just struck me that the core of that timber might not have been treated and now that I've exposed that wood by resawing it i'm worried it might be more prone to rotting. I read that the treatment soaks in around 5cm so if thats true I should be OK. I've also checked the new face and it looks treated (roughly the same colour as the rest of the wood) but what does everyone think?

Cheers
Hully

 

[9fingers]

If you are concerned about the cut faces of the treated timber there is some stuff you can get to paint on the cuts (usually endgrain). I think toolsatan stock it.

For some reason it has particularly short shelf life (ironic for a preservative :lol: ) so check the date code if you buy some.

toolsatan code 32693

Bob

 

[Mike G]

......I read that the treatment soaks in around 5cm........

Five mm, you mean. Absolutely no way it penetrates anything like 50mm. I should invest in some "jollop" (you can even pick it up at B&Q, Homebase or the like), and slap it around. Whilst you've got the brush wet, do your rafter feet.

 

[Dan0741]

Looking Good Hully. Glad Doris wasn't too rough with you....

 

[Hully]

Thanks for the advice gents. I have a Toolstation near me so will pick up some of the Ensele stuff this week.

I've fitted pretty much all the battens so the newly cut face is tight up against the workshop. Do you think I need to take them off and paint that new face with the treatment? My thinking was that they're highly unlikely to get wet if they're orientated that way (probably just get moist when the air is damp). The sides that face out are the treated surfaces so they should be OK. So I was mostly worried where the new face was exposed to the front...as well as the end grain where they've been cut to length.

I suppose I should probably take the time and take them all off and treat the new face even if it butts up against the building. That'll take me another weekend behind schedule but at least it'll be done right.

 

[Hully]

Looking Good Hully. Glad Doris wasn't too rough with you....

:lol: cheers Dan

 

[Hully]

Spring is in the air...and with it comes progress, I'm now ready to clad!! :eusa-dance:

Corner boards, gable boards and door & window trim is up, blocking is in, additional structural framing has been added to stiffen up the ceiling joists and I've applied preservative to all the cut faces of the battens. I've also turned all the cut faces around so they face outward, my thinking being that the air gap should help dry them out quicker leaving the factory preserved side to sit against the membrane.

I’ve attached a couple of photos though there isn’t a huge amount of visible progress to show for all those man-hours!!

The cladding (200mm wide feather edge Larch) has been ordered but won’t be arriving this week so I'll have time over the weekend to attach the shims at the bottom of the battens and bend up the insect mesh and attach it to the shims.

Cheers
Hully

 

[9fingers]

Looking good! Always nicer to be working in the spring sunshine eh?

Bob

 

[Malc2098]

Coming along nicely!

 

[Mike G]

Each to their own, but I'd be getting the membrane on the roof ASAP as a priority over boarding the outside of the walls. You'll be amazed at how much more convenient a big dry covered space is.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Each to their own, but I'd be getting the membrane on the roof ASAP as a priority over boarding the outside of the walls. You'll be amazed at how much more convenient a big dry covered space is.

He's right ya know...get up to a membrane on the roof, and chill with some cladding....you can tile it in 2028...ain't that right mike? :eusa-whistle:

Looks great BTW,

Jim

 

[Dan0741]

Looking good Hully. I did it in the same order as you and placed a Tarp over the roof to provide the dry area within which to work. I found it a lot of faffing about and would follow the roof first method if I went at it again. Whichever way you do it you are making sterling progress, and you will soon be sweating instead of stamping your feet with the cold!

 

[Mike G]

.......He's right ya know...get up to a membrane on the roof, and chill with some cladding....you can tile it in 2028...ain't that right mike? :eusa-whistle:

:lol: :eusa-whistle:

If the house wasn't in the state it's in, then the workshop would be finished. I'll have to slate it this summer: to put a third membrane on the roof would be.............erm..............embarrassing.

 

[Hully]

Cheers Guys.

I had thought about putting the membrane on the roof first but I'm working out of our garage right now so dont have an immediate need for another covered space. It would certainly be easier to work out of the workshop rather than walk back and forth to the garage...if the garage becomes too crowded with all the cladding I may put the membrane up.

I guess the issue with doing the membrane now is that I dont have the tiles and based on my primitive understanding I would need them to work out the batten gauge and I dont want to start punching holes in the membrane unnecessarily by putting battens up temporarily in order support my weight as I work my way up to the ridge with the membrane?

Though if I'm totally wrong please do let me know.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Cheers Guys.

I had thought about putting the membrane on the roof first but I'm working out of our garage right now so dont have an immediate need for another covered space. It would certainly be easier to work out of the workshop rather than walk back and forth to the garage...if the garage becomes too crowded with all the cladding I may put the membrane up.

I guess the issue with doing the membrane now is that I dont have the tiles and based on my primitive understanding I would need them to work out the batten gauge and I dont want to start punching holes in the membrane unnecessarily by putting battens up temporarily in order support my weight as I work my way up to the ridge with the membrane?

Though if I'm totally wrong please do let me know.

I see where you're coming from about preserving the integrity of the membrane...if it helps I stapled mine up awhile before I got any batts up, it also helps to to keep things in order while you battern out. The staple holes being no larger than the breather perforations imo. You'll have (the suggestion of ) sag in-between the rafters so any moisture should run off in-between.

If you've got it covered (boom tish!) by the garage...stick to your plan


Looking forward to which the cladding,

Jim

 

[Hully]

I see where you're coming from about preserving the integrity of the membrane...if it helps I stapled mine up awhile before I got any batts up, it also helps to to keep things in order while you battern out. The staple holes being no larger than the breather perforations imo. You'll have (the suggestion of ) sag in-between the rafters so any moisture should run off in-between.

If you've got it covered (boom tish!) by the garage...stick to your plan


Looking forward to which the cladding,

Jim

Cheers Jim

Totally agree about using the staples to keep the membrane in order and also about not being too concerned about the holes they make. My concern was about nailing battens at random intervals to act as a ladder while I work my way up to the ridge with the membrane and then removing them and re-nailing them once I know the correct tile gauge. I'm probably being overly concerned...as usual

Had a call from the cladding suppliers yesterday to say its getting delivered today so I'll hopefully get cladding this weekend. If the weather improves I'll bring the Kapex outside so I dont have to trek backwards and forwards to the garage.

Hully

 

[Hully]

Hi Gents

What are your suggestions for cladding field joints? I've read that the two boards should be joined over a stud/batten, that the ends of the two boards should be bevelled at 45's and that the ends should be primed and dry before being installed.

The first point makes total sense but I was planning on using a butt joint and installing the boards with wet primed ends. What have you guys done?

Cheers
Hully

 

[Mike G]

Are these timber feather-edge boards?

If so, then butt jointed is better than bevelled, and it is perfectly OK to install them with the ends still wet with paint. For a Rolls Royce job, cut a bit of 6" DPC say 3 inches wide and staple it (at its top edge) at the join location such that the bottom of it is just above the level of the boards which will cover it. Joins should of course be at a batten, which is why you use 50mm battens rather than 38. Don't forget to paint all round with a couple of coats before fixing in place, and then a final coat once in situ.