• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

Mike's ext'n & renovation (solar panels)

Looks great that Mike, nice use of the old snooker table too.

On the subject of spitting fires; I've found that some timbers when burnt can not just spit but actually throw small peices of burning wood out when the fire is poked.

We do have a habit of throwing just about every bit of stuff that remotely resembles timber into ours (MDF/OSB/old pallets etc). This makes it hard to guess what is the culprit but I think it is cheap resinous softwood.]

Mind you saying that Mike's hearth is much bigger than ours (the previous owners were unconcerned with trifling things like building regs) and we have not had any major disasters!
 
TrimTheKing":3b7h4aox said:
......Andy, it's hinged on the right with that big silver thing being the door handle...(I think...)...
Click to expand...

Correct.
 
We use a cheap sacrificial rug in-front of our wood burner. No problem with hot stuff coming out of the stove as we have a riddler operated from the outside but when cleaning, stuff can escape the hearth which would result in a mark on a light coloured carpet.

On the subject of air supply, when we had cavity wall stuff put in the older walls they insisted in drilling 4" holes in the two rooms with wood burners in. Even though these were newish (30yrs) build which have the insulation slabs built in and were not being stuffed. We had never had a problem with a lack of air supply and have blocked the holes up as they were far too draughty and we have CO detectors in the rooms. If I were installing them now I would use room sealed appliances.
 
Mike G":f9vdgoif said:
We are going to have an off cut of the carpet edged and placed in front of the hearth during the winter just in case. I would add that the distance from face of fire to edge of hearth exceeds the Building Regs minimum, and that it would have been hard to make it more than another inch or two wider without impeding the main path into the room.
Click to expand...

I've replaced the carpet since I put in the tile, but since my stove is in front of my old fireplace it was already raised. But that makes any escaping embers fly further too. No question that the tile was needed.

Kirk

IMG_6569.JPG
 
Andyp":2bejbryl said:
oops :oops:

i meant hinged left would enable a right handed poke without fully opening the door
Click to expand...

Haha, I'd guessed what you meant mate, just got the left/right mixed up. I didn't want to point it out as it can often cause alarm in the elderly if they think that their marbles are not rolling straight... :eusa-whistle:
 
I will do a full blow-by-blow WIP of this in a few days, but here is a little trailer. This is just a dry fit:

61bVnw1.png

3BYzMcp.png
 
Right, let's start at the beginning. I have a temporary staircase made of bits of construction pine, open tread, totally non-compliant with regulations, and we've put up with it for long enough. So I bought some oak. This stair will be the first, and probably the last, that I have ever made, and I wanted to make it individual but still traditional, so I settled on a cut string stair. Better get on with it......

This what I am making:

Fu7FX6F.png

I haven't any photos of running the waney edge boards through a friends big planer thicknesser, because that's just dull. Two boards that I couldn't take with me, though, were the strings, because of their length and the position of his machine. So I had to clean those up by hand:

jhvDsUm.png

I used an electric hand held plane as a scrub plane, then followed up with a belt sander across the grain, then along the grain, then a number 6 hand-plane to flatten, then a belt sander to finish. It was hard work to clean up the two strings, but on each of them I only had to get to a finish on one side, and just flatten the other side to something like:

Eg3qEYz.png

Proper joiners would no doubt make the strings first, but I was a bit nervous of cutting into these massive timbers, especially as I wasn't clear how to reference the cut-string side and the straight string side.....so I did a production run of ballusters:

iCaooSs.png

d7xTbHQ.png

..........and ground to a halt. 25mm was too skinny. So I raided my stores and came up with a whole heap of assorted bits:

oMiExiP.png

Thank goodness for a bandsaw and a planer thicknesser:

oMiExiP.png

Thirty mm square was a whole lot better. I sanded them in pairs:

ahPj3y2.png

I wanted to have stopped chamfers, but I think I worked out this was over 300 stops, and I really didn't want to do those all by hand. I hate chamfers which stop in a burnt half-round feathery mess, and eventually, with a little help, came up with a plan involving a bearing-guided straight cutter and a jig or 3.

7piEi16.png

FD7QNjH.png

qv5URWg.png

aiZkfzT.png

8FHA6ue.png

MK7Y8jl.png

boorVnG.png

m4tt11q.png

On the end of each of the stair ballusters (which are two different lengths) is a dovetail. For those used to me hand-doing most stuff, sorry:

2NsmNfS.png

4Pd0di9.png

43GNK5u.png

However, I did shape the dovetails by hand:

Ezr2MGS.png

cvvSEJU.png

ArTPBcv.png

I also cut out the treads:

MXCfYyj.png

With a cut string, the end of the tread projects out past the string, but you don't see the end grain (normally). You mitre in a piece, which performs the job of trapping the ballusters in their dovetail mortice. Another job for the guided cutter and a pattern:

5qUEK7d.png

This time the guide was on the top:

hlpySLj.png

There was also the bullnose step at the bottom to deal with:

U1mkXbT.png

yIguJgK.png
 
Back to ballusters. Here's the pile of dovetailed ballusters, for the stairs only. It's a different detail on the landing:

lKoeYva.png

Having made the tenon, time for the mortice. The location of these is absolutely critical. With a straight string you just space the ballusters out along the string, taking no account of the step position. With a cut string stair the ballusters actually sit on the tread, and need to be in the same place on each one, and evenly space up the stair. So I worked it out carefully in CAD, then made a router jig:

T9O5RBh.png

The straight sided mortise was adjusted to a dovetail, using a chisel another little pattern piece in ply:

NGiUsZg.png

UHcY5Lh.png

et8daK6.png

pzGrkFX.png

EhmWAvk.png

Now.........deep breath........time to tackle the strings. Firstly, do a careful drawing, and make a jig. This one just for marking out. After much thought I decided to start with the cut string:

iTnGNlC.png

5ptJU5G.png

ijmY4It.png

I used a jig because I don't have the little round screw-on thingies that pros use on a roofer's square (or similar). The jig simply had the rise along one side and the going along the other, with a right angle between.

wSWKMB9.png

I also had check dimensions so that I could see if there were any accumulated errors. I checked a few times before I picked up a saw:

wlGyhAx.png

siYKWX3.png

Now, it's important to understand that one string (the cut string) uses the underside of the tread and the back of the riser as a reference, and the other side (the straight string, against the wall) uses the top/ outside. I haven't the first idea how they set out the two different sides in relation to each other, when other than the floor and top newel lines there isn't a single point of reference relating one to the other. I made up another little jig:

JMjDHlA.png

I placed the cut string on top of the straight string, marked off the reference points top and bottom, and then used the little jig to transfer the step and riser locations across:

gLTg5YB.png

BMD2PvC.png

I raided the scrap bin for another jig, this time to make a template for routing out the housings for the tread and riser. Lots of careful measurement ensued (the sliver of cereal packet cardboard represents a wedge):

aYxS4Ke.png

iqjsE6l.png

caseiZl.png

ohkc46V.png

Again, I worked out how far apart each jig station was, and marked that down the string. I did a trial cut on the back of the string:

cWj1UeV.png

RSWx2uP.png

As you can see from the trial fit, I needed to adjust a tiny bit, so I added a few layers of tape:

SQGLzd7.png

This was the first go in earnest:

xSvOLLo.png

Disaster! Running around the corner on the underside of the nosing (overhang), I assumed that a square corner on the jig would produce a square corner in the cut.....but it didn't. It rounded it. So I had a little think:

CnDH7vz.png

58mKq22.png

I now could make the cuts in two different phases, and so never actually run the router around the corner.

I found it easier to work on the tall horses:

0UJLJ6y.png

I don't seem to have a photo of the finished straight string. More tomorrow.
 
Having popped over to Mike's to collect all of the shavings he made while producing these wonderful stairs, they are even better seen face to face.
 
I think Dave has had about 13 or 14 bags of shavings from me so far from this project. If it weren't for him collecting them I'd be over-run and have no room at all. My woodburner is making short work of all the little offcuts.
 
I was developing a small pile of scrap by now. Just to give me a mindless task for half an hour I made the wedges and support blocks, using up the scrap pile in the process. All done on the bandsaw:

aPwMjPd.png

After that orgy of machining (the stock preparation and cutting to size of the treads and risers had alone taken over 2 days), I felt the need of some handtool work. Time to make the brackets.

I printed out full size my drawing, and pasted it on a scrap of MDF. I used this as a template just to draw around, and then cut out the brackets on the bandsaw:

7uTRNtX.png

I had taken the unusual decision to dovetail the joint between the brackets and the risers. This meant that ideally they would be the same thickness, so the stock for both had been machined to 12mm. After sanding the edges on my mounted belt sander and just a little hand finishing, then running a tiny chamfer to remove the arris, they were ready for the dovetailing:

sXpE0tk.png

Locating the bracket in relation to the risers was the biggest head-scratcher of the whole job, by a country mile. Neither the top nor the bottom lined up, with the bracket being 30 or 40mm narrower than the riser. I calculated, offered up and marked, calculated again, offered up again......and in the end just had to make a decision and live with it. Seriously, that was a sleepless night.

Tails first:

DZwHeA8.png

RvQ73dh.png

Someone on UKW insists that chopping all the waste out with a chisel is the quickest way, rather than using a coping saw, and that a relieving cut up the middle of the waste helps its removal. Well, I tried it, and it was decidedly second best. The waste jams horribly on tails this small. The half done with a coping saw were quicker and cleaner:

PGSbGgs.png

I set an adjustable square to the dimension I had sweated over for so long, and chopped out the sockets. Dry fit:

VLLJt9B.png

vYdy7CM.png

That was the trial board, and everything was left over-long for potential adjustment, hence the deepened sockets. This was one of the subsequent boards (time to sort out that RAS blade!):

qb2MvZp.png

Then a few hours happily spent with marking gauge, knife, saw, chisels and mallet:

CERtRfD.png

I glued that lot up and left them to dry overnight, and tackled the three tenons on the ends of the strings to take to the newel posts (1 at the bottom, 2 at the top). Mark, knife cut, chisel chop, saw, chisel, router plane:

CJMg26U.png

oCAp2pZ.png

(That's a Sandvic. Great saw.....and being 12" long the perfect length for a job like this).

Mfat23e.png

I cleaned up the dovetailsthe following the morning, and did a trial assembly:

bwsLrWx.png

D6UCYQo.png

It's worth noting that the two strings still have no commonality. I had to prop the straight string on piles of off cuts to bring it up level with the cut string. When it comes to the final assembly I shall by doing this more carefully, and with a spirit level.
 
Mike. I’ve no experience of stair making or design so this might be a dumb question.
Is there anything to stop the treads pulling out from the right hand fixed string?
Are the treads and sockets dovetailed perhaps?
If so I might have missed that bit when reading through the thread - apologies

Bob
 
They're glued and wedged (or at least, they will be). There are no horizontal forces though trying to pull them out. It's not a vulnerable joint, and this is the traditional method, with no other fixings required. I'll show some photos of the underside when I do the final assembly.
 
Next job was the end caps for the treads. These are the part of the tread that project past the ballusters and the string, between the ornate brackets. First job was to plane the bits down to the right thickness, and cut a mitre on the end. I have a beautiful SCMS hanging on the far wall of my workshop, but it's big and heavy, and I simply couldn't get to it with all the bags of waste in the way, and finding somewhere to use it looked difficult too. Imagine a full sized staircase occupying the middle of your workshop!

So, I cut them by hand, and shot them on the shooting board:

5rjj7uS.png

EUjuTY0.png

There are minor variations at each step, so this wasn't a production run. Besides, I did my best to colour match them, so they were individually made:

zEO8lJQ.png

They then needed rounding over to match the stair nosing, so first up are some shots of setting up the router table:

pBuBugH.png

RWlxxbG.png

7coIrsA.png

....and finally the resulting end cap. I suppose I should have mitred in the near end in a separate piece, but life is too short, and I just rounded over the end grain:

gBSAlUZ.png

YEQFIZD.png

YgGZUGN.png

Difficult taking a photo one handed with a big SLR camera whilst trying to hold the joint tight with the other. I failed!

Now to the newels. These are cored with a piece of 45x45 softwood, which I first adjusted to complete straightness:

wpZ3qbh.png

After seeing nothing but oak shavings for the last week or more, this was a change:

Gfy7eDl.png

You don't want to see me ripping and planing boards, so here is the two stage glue-up of the first newel:

I0T9j6V.png

......and then jumping on a day or two, the second stage of the process. This is not the way to do it, I realised, and did the other two differently:

NBI9gON.png

f1ywDv0.png

The job I had been looking forward too least was the bullnose bottom step. This involved bending solid oak around a 150 radius curve, and although I had 1 spare board just in case, I broke 3 pieces of scrap in experimenting before tackling the job for real, so I was pretty apprehensive. Firstly, I made up a former in softwood:

LHxV9MD.png

w8xNepU.png

Note the tight angle on the near side of the top photo. This is to link into an under-squinted (half dovetail, if you like) element on the end of......never mind, the photos probably explain it better:

iS6hIg2.png

I reduced the 12mm thickness of the riser to just 2mm over the whole area of the bend. I then offered the dovetail element of the former into the corresponding part of the riser, and held it roughly in place:

kBfkqiw.png

I then applied an old towel, and some water:

BUqJjjs.png

The weight of the former and the towel started to curl the wood, and I just kept on checking, watering, and tightening the curve over the next 3 hours:

7ZZdrw3.png

nvDr1O1.png

You'll forgive me for not having any "during" photos of the actual glue up, as it was hectic and fraught. First, I glue and screwed the former in place, and then hauled the riser around it carefully, anchoring one end with the dovetail/ under-squint. Once I finally got it all the way around the former (all this with glue smeared everywhere), I tapped it down into the groove on the underside of the tread, an clamped everything loosely, before driving in some folding wedges which pulled everything up tight. You can see that I had to pack the wedges out a little:

5Cj196U.png

aJvAxym.png

vp20aXw.png

0gP8t9Y.png

That was actually late into the evening. I had planned on leaving the board soaking overnight, but on my last check before going to bed I had found that it was ready, so I started a glue up at 10.30pm, which isn't always a great idea.The following morning I de-clamped, marked up, and cut it to size:

2ezk90x.png

JkMWgoq.png

With a bit of cleaning up and sanding it looked OK:

aWLvuMX.png

What a relief. That was the biggest remaining obstacle to finishing the job. The rest is just donkey work.
 
I cleaned up the newel post by hand:

MjF5nD2.png

The other two newels were made in one stage, not two, and this saved a faff with the plane getting an exact fit between the two pieces. However, it did mean a lot of glue spread in a hurry, and lots and lots of clamps:

ByKKEud.png

I had to go back to the wood yard for more supplies. This is how all the wood for this stair started:

EZNOGrm.png

I mocked up two or 3 handrail sections for my wife to choose from, and very wisely she chose the simplest:

tBZLozY.png

eBFq7QL.png

I had found the most perfect piece of 2" oak for the handrails at the yard, absolutely dead straight and blemish-free. With one sensibly place cut up the middle, at the correct angle, I could save time and waste:

2EeFCsW.png

I'm seriously short of space for dealing with big pieces of wood, and had also to revert back to my old horses:

mD2qSBV.png

7dKLQSX.png

534FM7j.png

That will plane down to 65x45mm. I've decided to do individual mortices for each ballusters, rather than a groove with infill pieces, so there will be no full-length routing on these handrails. Thank goodness, as I've no idea how I could have managed in the constrained space I have left to work in.

That brings us up to date. It won't be fast from now on as I am somewhat busy with work for a few days.
 
"With a bit of cleaning up and sanding it looked OK" !!!!

OK?!! Looks bloomin' great to me. In fact, You'd have done a good bend on a guitar bout with that.

Maybe, from one who has only ever made one acoustic guitar to one who cycles, you could use old inner tube instead of gaffer tape to secure the veneer round the bend, wrapping it around the veneer and former bit by bit as you progress around the bend.

Looks lovely.
 
I hadn't thought of that, but you're right, inner tube would have done a nice job. Mind you, I'd used up a fair amount of my old inner tube stock staking and tying trees and shrubs against these endless storms in the last week or two. I'm not sure how much I've got left, if any.

Is that the technique used for guitars? Wetting the board, I mean?
 
Brilliant stuff as always. I know you do all the DTs in batches but it still takes some discipline and patience.

I reckon you have probably not worked on the stairs non-stop but how long has it taken you to get to this stage anyway.
 
I started about 10 days or so ago, I reckon. I had a long weekend on it last weekend, and it's been half days here and there otherwise. I dunno, maybe 50 something hours to date.
 
Mike G":1lalq0a4 said:
Is that the technique used for guitars? Wetting the board, I mean?
Click to expand...


Certainly. I was taught to use hot water and/or a luthier's bending iron.
 
Very interesting, Malc, thanks. So if I had taken an iron to the wet towel/ wood combination It could have helped ease the wood around the form?
 
I grabbed a couple of hours in the workshop this afternoon, and tackled the upper newels. After squaring and straightening them up they finished at the usual 90mm square. I cut them to final length, and then set out their joinery. Unfortunately, this photo doesn't show clearly the reference point, which is the top of the second top step, but it does show that the two mortices are in entirely different locations:

AhRwMrO.png

The little opening in the join caused by a bit of snipe is why this newel is this way around. It will be hidden when the stair is in place.

Now in joinery I would normally just chop out mortises with a mallet and chisel, but these are big....about 8" x 1" x about 65mm deep, more like green oak work than joinery. So I did what I do in green oak framing, and drilled out much of the waste first:

iCbdRkP.png

Then some chiseling:

Upm5VT5.png

.....and some checking:

BhVO0oJ.png

Before finally easing it into place:

VumckMG.png

Not perfect, so I'll tidy up tomorrow:

bRGT3zJ.png
 
Working out the newel on the wall side:

8Rsxr6z.png

Here they both are:

c3lzVbw.png

The back of the 11th tread is notched to suit:

qwnFqpc.png

QhWTLmE.png

And the newels slipped in smoothly first time:

tZ6F4Fd.png

O4TXM8l.png

However, we have a problem, Houston:

avbQAYJ.png

Something went wrong in the setting out, and so the newels will have to move inwards by a few mm (I settled on 6, because that was the thickness of a handy piece of MDF). I can't do this until I have the stair apart again, and the only thing it has implications for is the height of the handrail, which will go upwards by 3 or 4 mm as a result:

XBEb412.png

Whilst cogitating over that I glued up the rest of the bottom newel, which isn't the same as the others:

Bx7neqz.png

Perhaps those who make stairs regularly could comment on this. Those steps where the riser is embedded in the newel.......what do you do? If you put a slot&wedge arrangement in as per the string, I can't see how you could ever actually get the riser into place. So, I cleared out the entire area behind so that it can slip in from the back. Is this what you guys do?

dDi00HQ.png

wdpIo9j.png

Chamfers. You know how much I like a nice chamfer. Well, here's mt standard chamfer stop, before and after:

RgaDowP.png

0hgnD2M.png

And the completed newel (without caps etc):

Q1JGRRR.png

Being very precise about where you actually are on a piece of wood is critical. Here I started drilling out for a mortise for the handrail, had a second thought, checked, found out I was on the wrong face:

M7MibIU.png

OK, that's a pity but it's only a little bit of filler, and a nice reminder every time I use the stairs that I am not perfect. Eventually I chopped out a suitable mortise on the right part of the correct newel:

TYYmWVR.png

The following day the bottom newel was ready to tackle. First job was to clean up the faces of the thickened bit at the bottom, and square up the base:

pKNResS.png

Then chop a pair of mortises in the usual way:

c1JiwBX.png

And a first trial fit:

IveaMxh.png

It was absolutely perfect on the inside, where no-one will ever see it:

wUck2DW.png

But poor on the outside:

FKk54C7.png

If only I had a shoulder plane. But I've managed forever without......just fix a straight-edge, scribe with a knife, and chisel away:

EPYB3gC.png

Fixed:

jTsHI3c.png

Marking out around newels is awkward because nothing is on the same plane. I found it easier to make a quick jig of the exact shape of the tread section:

wKZM18c.png

eIBV1u5.png

Whilst marking stuff up it seemed sensible to mark the shoulders for the handrail:

LVrtoXd.png

cIfYNTf.png

fpMSGvq.png

Wise to do that before shaping the rail, because transferring markings around a non-rectilinear shape with rounded corners would be some sort of mugs game.

Here I am transferring the mortise position from the top newel to the bottom:

B3VtKin.png

After doing all the marking up around the bottom newel, time to start chopping wood away:

sHjjWHs.png

My personal method of marking involves some little symbols. Here the double arrows through a marking out line tell be to leave the line (ie cut against the far edge of the line). In other words, my first stab at the setting out hadn't been special:

qGDrA0Y.png

nuPtshO.png

cLq31Xt.png

There are housing joints on 3 faces of this lower newel:

nZe2t3x.png

CFF4JxD.png

It's not complicated, but you must stop and think. It all came together OK in the end:

c3HfemM.png

p6VGuqC.png

That's another of those risers without any backing behind it in the newel.

Having done all the joinery to the newel, now I can get on and do the frilly bits. First, choose, then set out, the carving (every stair has a date carved into the newel, doesn't it?):

FSUaqfZ.png

This allows the setting out of the cove cuts (not quite fluting):

ILH31X7.png

e8fE90d.png

90rdCKN.png

I shall enjoy carving those tomorrow. The wood looks clear and blemish free, my chisels are sharp.......
 
StevieB":1yvdhf03 said:
Awesome skills Mike - you make it seem easy!
Click to expand...

..........cause it's not easy taking photos of thinking time.
 
2EeFCsW.png

Mike, it looks like the available material here was pretty tight. Were you able to keep two pieces after subtracting the central saw kerf? I think I might have contemplated using the bandsaw instead of a circular saw to do this long rip.

Kirk
 
Yes, it was tight, Kirk, which is why I did it this way rather than a straight (vertical) rip, and then shaping the two pieces separately. But yes, the pieces are plenty big enough. With a workshop full of a staircase, off cuts, and bags of shavings, there isn't room to do 3 metres in and 3m out through the bandsaw. Besides, my bandsaw is such a pig to adjust that I never use it for out of square cuts.
 
I got 2 or 3 hours in this afternoon, and started by stopping some chamfers on the main newel:

xElalrn.png

Then it was time for some carving:

kN7soIa.png

40mZUL6.png

WGMrEdn.png

Az9fOjx.png

xyGNnjZ.png

I don't have any carving chisels. I only use my normal bench chisels:

JWm4Edr.png

1xiFSXD.png

I hate mitres. I hate, hate, hate mitres. So I designed in 8 of them, just for fun:

JM18Y18.png

iwVql8x.png

7yTBazL.png

Eight pieces fitted, 11 made. I hate the damn things.

8febnG3.png

1ZznEBt.png

TSDUTpk.png
 
Lovely work, Mike. I also love working in oak.

As far as mitres go, I use one of these little beasties

951813_xl.jpg


Or if it's bigger stuff, the band sander
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top