Mike's ext'n & renovation (solar panels)

[Mike G]

The next job was to cut out the first of the tie beams. Have you ever seen a straight one in an old building? No, neither have I, and most of them were a long way from straight when they were new........then they started twisting. I chose a standard sort of shape and then started cutting. Now, this is a piece of wood 130mm (5"+) thick, and my circular saw cuts to about 65mm. This meant marking it carefully on both sides, and cutting it out twice:



The offcuts are large. This is after planing and sanding:



Bugger. That's bark, which means sap wood alongside it. I was umming and ahhing about doing chamfers, but when this revealed itself, I had no choice:



I roughed them out with a router, then set to work with draw knife, chisel, spokeshave and scraper, as per the last week or so:





In the middle of the top of the tie beam is the joint with the King post. (As an aside, this is a King post because it supports a ridge beam. Much more typical of the region are crown posts, which support a collar purlin, and the roof had no ridge beam. However, this roof is too small for such a design). Here are a sequence of photos showing how I chop out a mortice. I always chisel a bit out before I drill, so that you are always sure where the edge of the "hole" is:









Finally, I stored the tie beam out of the way on a raised frame I made yesterday. These lumps of wood are so enormously heavy that by the time you have taken an hour to raise them a couple of feet to saw-horse height, you don't feel inclined to lose the height you have gained:



Starting the King post. This will end up roughly 5 inches square, although part of it will be octagonal. Luckily, I ordered timber 6" x 5", in case I needed a bit of room for adjustment, and I did: the tie beam is 132mm wide, and the wood for the King post is only 125mm deep, so I cut and planed the 6" dimension down to size:





Then I cut the first tenon, but it just didn't sit nicely:



So, I did what carpenters have done for over a thousand years: I undercut the shoulders. Just a sliver off with a chisel:



Then, as usual, it becomes almost impossible to get the damn tenon out of the mortice. Who said a chisel is just for chiselling?



After an awful lot of careful checking, I made the tenon for the other end (the ridge beam). I was really important to get the right faces in the right places, and with the beam upside down, mistakes are easy. However, the joint worked OK:





It was at this point that I had a change of mind about the design for the junuction between the rafters and the King post. This entailed some sketches on the wall, then a trip inside to draw it properly......but I won't be doing any of the actual carpentry until tomorrow.

The King post is a long way from finished (it's barely started), but I wanted to drill the peg holes for the "knee" (wind brace) before I start cutting the octagonal, so it was time to start the next piece of wood. Here I am setting out the brace with a spline. I did a better curve than this, but only have slightly above the average number of arms, and would have needed at least a third to get a decent photo.:



After cutting out on the bandsaw (it's only 50mm thick):



A bit of work with the spokeshave:





Now, this is probably a little unorthodox, but it seemed likely to produce a more accurate tenon than attempting such a long cut with a saw. I decided to chisel out the tenon. As always, I started by chiselling a groove close to the line, so that when I put the chisel in the line marked by a Stanley knife, the edge comes away cleanly without just broadening the "trench":



Then to the line, and chisel the shoulder:



Then the camera batteries died, so you'll have to wait to tomorrow to see a fully chiselled out tenon. I hope you can sleep with the excitement

 

[Rod]

Interesting stuff - are these structural or purely decorative?

Rod

 

[Mike G]

This is all structural, Rod.

 

[Rod]

I was trying to find and have a look at your plans - a lot of photos seem to have disappeared?

Rod

 

[TrimTheKing]

I was trying to find and have a look at your plans - a lot of photos seem to have disappeared?

Rod

I've just been through every page of this thread Rod and all photo's present and correct…

Did you mean this thread or another?

Cheers
Mark

 

[Rod]

Strange they are showing up now - before a lot were showing as a little box with a broken diagonal line running through through it?
Perhaps a Tapatalk thing?

Rod

 

[Mike G]

I can't tell you what a great day I've had! Not just with woodwork...

Where were we? Ah, yes, a chiselled-only mortice on the end of a brace:



The next job was to attach the brace to the King post, but locating it isn't entirely straightforward. First, I set up a right angle on the floor, with the Kingpost nearest the camera:



The complication is that I am going to be setting these braces into the face of the posts and beams, to prevent any potential for shrinkage allowing a gap to open. I really don't like to see a chink of light through a joint. The brace obviously has to be the same distance from post and beam, hence the tape measure in the above photo. Mark it......



......then chop out the mortice only, offer the brace into place, and mark around the foot of the brace where you want it let into the face of the post:





I couldn't think of any other way of removing the waste to 11mm deep other than but using a router. I set up the depth stop and just did a series of plunge cuts, being careful to stay clear of the line:





From there it was easy to clean up with a chisel:



I then offered the brace into place, and marked it to check that it was going in the proper depth:



It was:



So after doing the normal offset holes for pegs, I put it all together and checked that it was square:



Three hours work to make a couple of joints. Jeez........ It would probably help if I could feel my hands. Anyway, I headed in for a cup of tea, and boy, the traffic is heavy today:



Next on the list was the mortice into the ridge beam. This wasn't easy to mark. As you can see the post had to be propped up at an appropriate height:



I seem to have neglected to take a photo of that, but frankly, you've probably seen enough pictures of mortices!!

Having got what I was after regarding peg holes in the King post, I next turned my attention to changing the square lump of wood into an octagonal King post. First job, do some working and out and marking up. Next job, hack away the bulk of the waste in way practical. The only thing I could come up with was the most useless tool in the workshop: the jigsaw......





I then started to work with chisel, draw knife, and so on, but got a bit fed up that I could only see one line at a time. I spent 10 minutes knocking up a quick jig to enable me to work on the flat, and see both lines:





That's much better!



Having cleaned up the face and brought it to the lines, it was just a question of adding the usual chamfer-stop:



Four chamfers, 8 stops, and it was job done. Here it is sitting upside down on the ridge beam:



Here it is the right way up on the tie beam, with the brace added:



Marking up for letting the foot of the brace into the ridge beam 11mm as per the other end:



That came up OK:



I spent the remainder of the afternoon cutting out the other 3 braces on the bandsaw. I was so damn pleased with my Kingpost and brace that I brought it in so that my wife could see it when she came home from work. Mabel appears to be claiming some sort of credit for it:



On top of having an absolute ball making the first of the King posts, I also got the go ahead today for a Grand Designs-type house for a client. That is a once-in-a-lifetime job..... I'm a happy chap this evening

 

[TrimTheKing]

Great woodwork Mike, and fantastic news on the house job! I hope we'll get to be part of the process (assuming the client would allow it...)!

Cheers
Mark

 

[9fingers]

Congratulations on the new commission Mike! bscene-drinkingcheers:
About time you stopped enjoying yourself and did some work :text-lol:

Do you have a drawing of these oak beams in the roof please Mike, I'm having a bit of difficulty visualising where everything goes.

Cheers
Bob

 

[AndyP]

Congratulations on the new commission Mike! bscene-drinkingcheers:
About time you stopped enjoying yourself and did some work :text-lol: Bob

:text-+1:

Do you have a drawing of these oak beams in the roof please Mike, I'm having a bit of difficulty visualising where everything goes.
Cheers
Bob

:text-+1:

 

[Rod]

Lovely work
Another request for structural drwgs please - I cannot see were these "go" and how they can be structural when you've got rafters and the roof on?

You seem to be making very light work with this timber - how easy is it to work? But I'm sure it's down to your expertise.

Rod

 

[Mike G]

Sorry guys....

These are my working drawings, so they're not great presentation drawings, but they'll give you a clue. First, a cross section of the roof showing one of the trusses in elevation:



Then a long-section:



Here is a diagram from the internet which might help. I am not doing the purlins, just the ridgebeam:

http://www.timberstructures.net/images/king-post-truss.gif

 

[Mike G]

I cannot see were these "go" and how they can be structural when you've got rafters and the roof on?

At the moment, Rod, there are some temporary ties nailed across the roof stopping the spread. I am replacing those with the oak structure, which will provide a structural ridgebeam, and 3 big ties, which will lock the roof solid. If I were to tile the roof at the moment, I am sure it would spread under the load. However, once the oak is in place (by this weekend), the rafters will be unable to spread under load.

In the old days, rooves consisted of "principle trusses" and intermediate rafters supported on purlins. Well, mine is a bit like that, but has been built in the wrong order. In other words, I am putting the principle supporting structure in after the secondary rafters, because I wanted to ensure that the oak stayed dry (it stains badly if it gets wet).

 

[9fingers]

Thanks Mike,

You are certainly the master of the unconventional; not out of perversity but everything done for well thought out reasons.

Very stimulating.

Bob

 

[Rod]

Yes thanks Mike - I get it now.

Rod

 

[kirkpoore1]

There's something about timber framing where the coolness expands with the cube of the thickness. I mean, that sort of detail is a nice affectation on furniture, but on a building it's just way, way more awesome.

Kirk

 

[AndyP]

I understand now why I was confused. For some reason I had assumed just one king post in the middle but in fact you are doing how many?

 

[Phil]

I just read this thread with absolute fascination and great respect.

:text-bravo:
:text-goodpost:

Cheers
Phil

 

[Mike G]

There's something about timber framing where the coolness expands with the cube of the thickness. I mean, that sort of detail is a nice affectation on furniture, but on a building it's just way, way more awesome.

Kirk

Thanks Kirk........but you raise an interesting point about thickness. So many modern oak framing projects are ruined, in my view, by the use of over-large timbers. When you see a project on Grand Designs or elsewhere that features green oak work, you just know that the posts will all be 8 or 9 inches square, the beams will be monsters, and, worst of all, the braces will be the same thickness as the post and beams One of the reasons for the aesthetic working in the original buildings is that the timbers were just the right size. They were generally just big enough to do the job. and you could see that. OK, part of the job sometimes was to show off your wealth, and that often meant using more timbers than were structurally necessary, but that was more, not bigger.

 

[Mike G]

I just read this thread with absolute fascination and great respect.

:text-bravo:
:text-goodpost:

Cheers
Phil

Jeez Phil, that must have taken you hours!!

 

[Phil]

I just read this thread with absolute fascination and great respect.

:text-bravo:
:text-goodpost:

Cheers
Phil

Jeez Phil, that must have taken you hours!!

Mike not quite, I do try get to the forum daily depending if I am working or loafing!

Cheers
Phil

 

[Mike G]

I understand now why I was confused. For some reason I had assumed just one king post in the middle but in fact you are doing how many?

Three, although one will be built into a wall (the one on the RH end of my long-section drawing, above).

 

[StevieB]

Thanks for the drawings Mike, makes things a lot clearer. Have to say, this is looking fantastic! I presume this is your 'take me out in a box' house rather than something you would sell on in a few years after completion?

Steve

 

[Mike G]

I think so Steve. We don't expect to move again.......well, maybe when we're so doddery that being isolated in the countryside becomes a nuisance rather than an asset.

-

I'm inside having a cup of tea, 'coz my nerves are shot to bits! I've just taken 2 big cuts out of my Kingpost on the bandsaw, freehand, and they'll be on show. Non-woodworkers will never know the angst involved!

 

[9fingers]

-

I'm inside having a cup of tea, 'coz my nerves are shot to bits! I've just taken 2 big cuts out of my Kingpost on the bandsaw, freehand, and they'll be on show. Non-woodworkers will never know the angst involved!

What is this ?!!! Super human Mike shows behaviour normally associated with mere mortals? :text-lol: :text-lol:

Bob - who has just completed laying a dozen slabs for the base of the garden store and also in need of refreshment! TNT have just delivered the EPDM sheet for the roof - there is a danger I might complete this project but there is a major distraction coming up as SWMBO goes into hospital next week.

 

[Mike G]

What is this ?!!! Super human Mike shows behaviour normally associated with mere mortals? :text-lol: :text-lol: .........

:lol: It was never me claiming superhuman powers. I just plod on....

Sorry to hear about your wife. Hope she is OK.

-

No update tonight. I don't feel like advertising my spectacular under-achievements.

 

[fiveeyes]

Firstly, impressed, and bit jealous of your skills. Certainly looking forward to more!

 

[Mike G]

I remember a couple of days ago mentioning that I had decided on a change of design at the junction between the King post and the rafters. Well, my thinking was that I needed a junction that was entirely rafter-to-King post, and didn't include any rafter-to-ridgebeam element. Secondly, Kingposts usually had jowls on the top, and mine was looking a little bare and boring being straight.

So, this is what I did:





That cut was the most nerve-wrecking thing I've done for years. That was freehand on the bandsaw, and will be entirely visible from the side and underneath. There would be no chance of cleaning it up or fixing it if something went wrong........I had to go in and have a sit down with a cup of tea after doing these four cuts!!

The jowls themselves were easy, again, all on the bandsaw:





For an illustration of how wet this wood is, look what happens when you screw a screw into it:



That's water squeezed out of the wood!

Jowls completed, planed and finished:



This is how it will work with the ridge beam:



Next job was to make the two rafters. I thought this would take an hour or so...... :eusa-naughty: :eusa-naughty: Firstly, I had to move the tie beam along a bit, but it wouldn't co-operate. I had to resort to a roller:



I set the Kingpost up in position, and after cleaning up a piece of 6" x 5" oak, clamped it in place to mark it up:



That was a mistake. It took me over four hours just to do the bottom joint. 4 hours!!! :shock: I offered it up dry 7 times. Each time I took it apart it took 10 minutes or more, and the same to put it back together, so that's almost two and a half hours just moving the rafter around, and it's heavy! The more complicated joint at the top took less time, but altogether, just to fit one rafter, took 6 hours..... Oh boy, I was pretty fed up with myself. So fed up I didn't even remember to take a photo of it finally in place.

The following day (today) I had a new strategy. MDF is a lot easy to play with than oak, so I made a template:







The it is simply a question of drawing around it on a cleaned up piece of wood, then cutting it out. However, I have developed little strategy for getting long straight cuts right. It is so easy to foul up one stroke of the saw and ruin a good joint, so I have adopted the following strategy. First, mark the line deeply with a Stanley knife:



Then start chiselling just a few millimeters away from your line, and chisel away from the line (note the blue/black colouring on the chisel. This is the reaction of steel with the tannin in oak):



Then chisel the opposite way, creating a trench just away from the line. These are quick, rough-as-old-boots cuts:



Then sneak up on the line, before finally engaging the chisel in the Stanley cut and producing a clean edge. 30 seconds or a minute, and now I have a clean edge which would be hard to wreck with a clumsy movement of the saw:





There is no getting away from old fashioned hard work sawing out the rest of the tenon. The really difficult part is into the end grain, which is not only difficult to control, but damn, it raises a sweat:



This rafter dropped perfectly into place the second time, so the template idea worked really well:







Only half a day today as I had a big meeting in an ancient farmhouse we are starting work on.........(but I bought a new saw on the way home).

 

[TrimTheKing]

Beeee-yoo-di-ful! :eusa-clap:

Mark

 

[billybuntus]

Very impressive work. I'm currently tidying up a house along the street. I'm half your age and I cannot believe your work rate. The work your doing is very skilled and yet you push through it with ease.

I'm sure it's mentally straining and the joints you've just done would have most men head scratching and procrastinating for a month before making a single cut.

Do you have anyone to pass your skills on to?

 

[Mike G]

......The work your doing is very skilled and yet you push through it with ease.

It might look that way. It certainly doesn't feel that way

I'm sure it's mentally straining and the joints you've just done would have most men head scratching and procrastinating for a month before making a single cut.

I remember watching a neighbour building a boat when I was a youngster, and I remember seeing him take hours over a single joint on the gunwale.......making half a dozen or more false starts where he seemed just about to make the first cut, then going away to do something else for a while. It's that "I'll see this joint every time I step aboard" thing. I didn't get it then, when I was a kid, but I do now. I'll be lying underneath this roof every night for years to come, looking up at it, and knowing where every slight error is.

Do you have anyone to pass your skills on to?

I've a couple of daughters who aren't interested in woodwork. Skills such as they are don't need passing on. I've worked all this stuff out for myself over the years, so anyone interested enough would be able to work it out for themselves too, I guess.

 

[Stargazer]

Mike,
Do you do anything about the blue on the chisels......mine have suffered in a similar way on a project I help with.....it also transfers to the wood I find (both oak and chestnut). Since I only get to work on this one weekend a month I spend ages cleaning all my chisels when I return home.

Ian

 

[Mike G]

It cleans off quickly when I sharpen them. I use "scary sharp", and a quick touch on the finer grit paper soon gets rid of it.

 

[Rod]

Impressive work Mike I like the shaping of the kingpost.
Are you going to add any carved bosses to show off your wealth like angels, cupids and perhaps crossed cricket bats? [emoji2]

As you've got the roof already in situ (so you can only work from underneath) how are you going to install the oak structure - will you have to jack things up?

Rod

 

[Mike G]

...As you've got the roof already in situ (so you can only work from underneath) how are you going to install the oak structure - will you have to jack things up?

Ridgebeam first, which will be raised bit-by-bit on scaffold. It will be held in place with temporary supports fixed to the softwood rafters. Then the Kingposts with the braces already attached will go in, and they'll just dangle on their pegs. I've just worked out that the oak rafters will have to be put up next, and held temporarily in place whilst the tie beams are raised. These will be propped from below until everything is pegged, then they'll be bolted to the existing rafters.

That's the theory I've provisionally booked a friend for next Monday to give me a hand with all that. Should be fun......

 

[Rod]

Pity there's no such things as sky hooks[emoji2]

Rod

 

[billybuntus]

I've a couple of daughters who aren't interested in woodwork. Skills such as they are don't need passing on. I've worked all this stuff out for myself over the years, so anyone interested enough would be able to work it out for themselves too, I guess.

That's a shame. I'm sure you have a mind that is better than most for working out. I struggled for a couple of years before a skilled uncle came along and now I feel like I know what I'm doing. His make do and mend attitude sometimes irritates me now as does my requirement to do everything to a high standard to him.

You should of gave restoration man a shout before embarking on this. I'm sure you'd be more than TV worthy. Some of the jokers you see on the program clearly have earned there money far too easily and love throwing it away.

 

[Mike G]

My first job today was to make the remaining three braces:



I then did some tidying up and finishing off of the first principle truss, including a final scrape, and drilling and pegging. I wanted to pull the top joints up a bit tighter, but there isn't enough timber there to use draw-bore pegging to do the job, so I came up with the idea of wedging the bottom joint, thus forcing the rafter along horizontally. It's as simple as this:





The top of the rafter is above the ceiling line, so will never be seen. The wedges worked as planned.

At this point, my wife grabbed the camera and disappeared with it for the day. So, there are no pictures of me dis-assembling the principle truss, nor constructing the next two King posts and their jowls (which took an inordinately long time as I tried to do grain matching, with conspicuous lack of success). I am really tight for time to get this all finished by Monday ready for lifting into place. If I do a couple more 12 hour days I might have a chance.....

 

[Phil]

I am really tight for time to get this all finished by Monday ready for lifting into place. If I do a couple more 12 hour days I might have a chance.....

Maybe try getting up at 04:00, leaving out breakfast, tea, lunch, tea, sun downers, dinner. Should give you a comfortable 14 hours.

Nice work!

Cheers
Phil

 

[Pinch]

Yep, stonking work Mike! Are you leaving any signatures in the oak work?