New Morris Van

[Woodster]

I wonder how many of these they’ll sell?

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[AJB Temple]

Quite cool but with a range of only 200 miles (claimed) and starting price of £60,000+ I suspect market will be limited.

 

[sunnybob]

I had to drive a MORRIS van for work in the mid 70's. Despite the fact it was brand new it was so bad I would never buy anything labelled morris out of principle :eusa-hand:

 

[MattS]

Quite cool but with a range of only 200 miles (claimed) and starting price of £60,000+ I suspect market will be limited.

Followed this van's progress for a few years, there was a really in depth video on the Late Brake Youtube channel about 6 months ago and they drove a preproduction model. I think JE claim up to 250 with other options in the future. So if you compare the range and cost to the closest comparable model the VW ID Buzz it is competitive on specs. Obviously buying from a small company has pros and cons, but I really hope it does well.

 

[AJB Temple]

I hope it does well too. It is nothing like a Morris of yore engineering wise, and it looks fun. I suspect it's market will be ULEZ delivery zone in high end neighbourhoods, and artisan shops who can afford it (not many).

Manufacturer claimed EV ranges are almost always ludicrously optimistic as they test in ideal running conditions usually. The advantage of the VW offering are many though: link with camper van heritage; proper crash protection; large company warranty and service network back up; car of the year; similar price; lots of options; no insurance hassle.

The insurance point is very relevant as insurance companies hike premiums crazily when they have no track record to go on.

 

[Malc2098]

The local Coop (or London Cooperative Society) used to have a mobile shop in one of those vans around my estate back in the 50s.

My mum used to send me out with a list and I had to run round the estate looking for it.

 

[Woodster]

For such a large vehicle it’s a little surprising the range isn’t a bit better. Perhaps they wanted to keep the price down with a modest size battery pack? There are quite a number of BEV’s with a claimed 375 mile range these days and polestar say their latest offering does a little over 400.

A mate of mine has just fitted solar panels on his ICE campervan to help keep the leisure battery topped up.

I read a while ago that new solar panels on the way are going to be cheaper and much more efficient so it would seem to make sense to fit them on larger BEV’s like this? Interesting times.

Edit:

https://electrek.co/2023/04/06/vw-id-bu ... ded-range/

 

[AJB Temple]

Not sure about solar panels on EVs. There is a weight and cost penalty. I was recently reading an article by a guy in California - ie lots of sun - that the solar panels he fitted to his large EV truck added about 2000 miles to his annual range of about 30,000 miles total. The charge up power saved was massively outweighed by the cost of the panels through a whole life estimate.

 

[Jonathan]

My Nabour in Andalucía has tried it with his Tesla and a 18M2 aray of panels.....it works if you do very very little milage.
You would need a massive aray of solar and plenty of sun to keep an EV running for an average mileage.



Sent from my Redmi Note 9S using Tapatalk

 

[Cabinetman]

Another problem with an EV van is the weight of a tradesmans kit and fitting out the vehicle.
I have bad memories of Morris vehicles also, used to help a friend bring new cars back from Oxford? The number that didn’t make it back up North was ridiculous.

 

[Lons]

Solar panels on motorhomes help to charge the leisure battery, I have a 100 wt on mine but it's quite large and heavy for the output, certainly not enough but the benefit is that it helps to keep the battery in reasonable condition. I'd probably get to the outskirts of the village if it had to power motors for our 7.5m / 4.25t motorhome. :lol:

I had a bad experience in the late 70s with a Morris Marina company car, a horrible piece of junk, it was less than a month old and I'd been from the north east to Carlisle and had to get back to the office so pushing it a bit along the military road when just back into 30mph area close to the office when the nearside front suspension collapsed. I didn't crash into anything apart from the kerb but needed a change of pants. :shock: Might have been a different outcome if it had happened at 70.

 

[Malc2098]

Solar panels on motorhomes help to charge the leisure battery, I have a 100 wt on mine but it's quite large and heavy for the output, certainly not enough but the benefit is that it helps to keep the battery in reasonable condition. I'd probably get to the outskirts of the village if it had to power motors for our 7.5m / 4.25t motorhome. :lol:

I had a bad experience in the late 70s with a Morris Marina company car, a horrible piece of junk, it was less than a month old and I'd been from the north east to Carlisle and had to get back to the office so pushing it a bit along the military road when just back into 30mph area close to the office when the nearside front suspension collapsed. I didn't crash into anything apart from the kerb but needed a change of pants. :shock: Might have been a different outcome if it had happened at 70.

Their front suspension were an inverted design of the Morris 1000 front suspension. That used to collapse as well!

 

[Lons]

Their front suspension were an inverted design of the Morris 1000 front suspension. That used to collapse as well!

I had a lot of company cars, all British built, very few that were reliable or didn't have problems, luckily apart from the early years I at least had a choice of makes and models. None of the companies I worked for would buy Japanese and it wasn't until I was allowed my first BMW, a basic 316 4 door that despite the lack of extras the others had I got a car that handled well and felt solid. It was a stark contrast to the previous Vauxhall SRI 130 I handed in which was fast but in the garage more than on the road.
When I started buying my own cars I got a Vauxhall Omega but soon swapped that and have bought German ever since, without a single regret.

 

[sunnybob]

I know we're bashing a long dead brand name, but dont forget the morris marina that came off the production line with one disc front brake and one drum front brake :shock: :lol:
In '75, that brand new morris van I had to drive was firmly still into the 50's as far as comfort, roadholding, and reliability.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My sister had a Maestro that was due to be exported to NZ (financially feasible in those days). She had so many problems from new (she had to run it, it had to be second hand when exported) she demanded the dealer exchange it. They refused until one day she drove it into their showroom, sat in it, locked the doors, smiled benignly and informed the sales manager very politely that she would she would drive the thing through the f*****g showroom window if they didn't take it back. They took it back.

 

[MattS]

British Leyland made some poor cars, but as a Morris Minor owner have to stick up for the little moggie. By the end of it's life it might have been a bit out of date but the Minor was a famously well balanced and great handling car. Suspension failure is normally down to lack of maintenance. This is a car from the days when they needed more than an oil change and more regularly than ever 20,000 miles.

Brilliant little cars!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A neighbour has a moggie - I picked up a genuine BMC manual for it, including all the service bills for the car it was originally bought for for the princely sum of a fiver.

 

[AJB Temple]

The Morris brand, by then just badge engineering was ditched in 1987. According to Wiki the Morris trading name is actually owned by a Chinese company.

Not sure that any of this near 40 or 50 year old reminiscing has anything to do with the new van made by a completely different business. It does show the age profile of the forum members though. :lol:

 

[AJB Temple]

Actually if we must rattle on about old stuff, I would really like an old Morris. Preferably this one from 1932. French Morris-Leon-Bollee (accents missing as I forgot the key strokes). Looks lovely.

 

[Just4fun]

For such a large vehicle it’s a little surprising the range isn’t a bit better. Perhaps they wanted to keep the price down with a modest size battery pack?

True.
A van has the advantage of interior space compared to a car. Surely at least some proportion of owners would be prepared to trade some of that space for increased range. So there could be a market for an additional battery pack, housed in the back of the van. If that battery pack were easily removable & replaced with a ready-charged replacement, even better. A company running a fleet of vans might well find that an attractive feature.

 

[AJB Temple]

Generally the size of the vehicle makes no difference to battery capacity. The batteries are a thin flat layer usually, along most of chassis. Manufacturers just put in more batteries or a thicker layer (to price differentiate between moderate, high and ultra high range. The cost differential in terms of the battery cost is unlikely to be much, but manufacturers like to up sell. Constructionally the battery packs are still pretty much like a shedload of AA batteries sandwiched together. Tech is improving though.

Might be different with this Morris van concept as it is very low volume and is always likely to be very low volume. They can't afford to get out of touch with the price point already set by VW as this is a directly interchangeable purchase.

 

[Woodster]

If that battery pack were easily removable & replaced with a ready-charged replacement, even better. A company running a fleet of vans might well find that an attractive feature.

They are using swappable batteries on scooters in the far east.

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[Woodster]

Constructionally the battery packs are still pretty much like a shedload of AA batteries sandwiched together. Tech is improving though.

Pouch batteries are used by some manufacturers but apparently the Chinese have experienced a lot of EV fires recently. Maybe they are using pouch batteries?
A quick Google says Tesla wouldn’t use them in 2021 but then it changes in 2023. Battery tech for BEV’s is obviously moving pretty fast. Not a time to place bets.

 

[Cabinetman]

Actually if we must rattle on about old stuff, I would really like an old Morris. Preferably this one from 1932. French Morris-Leon-Bollee (accents missing as I forgot the key strokes). Looks lovely.

That’s a very attractive looking car, the proportions are just right, probably not very useful compared to a modern car but that’s not what it would be used for. Not sure whether you get to the boot space by removing the rear storage box or though the back seat, great fun for a spin in the countryside and a picnic though.

 

[AJB Temple]

Agree the tech is speeding along. Scooters and electric bikes are light though. A Tesla SUV weighs over 2500kg and the batteries are heavy. Tesla batteries range from about 500kg to 780kg I think. I think if they can make demountable batteries work smoothly for cars, and still have 300 mile range or more, that will be a big advance.

 

[Cabinetman]

Toyota claim to have cracked the battery problem, with a solid state battery that is half the weight cost and size that will give a 900 mile range. IF true it would be a complete game changer. Interesting times, but then our lives have always been in the most interesting period technologically.
Ian

 

[AndyP]

If the solid state battery claims are true I wonder if all the lithium ion batteries in existing EVs can be replaced.

 

[AJB Temple]

Toyota website https://www.toyota.ie/company/news/2021 ... -batteries

claims 700km range (430 miles) range (must depend on weight and aerodynamics of car and speed it goes at) which is pretty good, and crucially a zero to full charge in 10-15 mins. This will be a huge step forward if it is indeed half the weight (still not trivial or portable) and has long life. 2025 launch they say. Musky is also hinting at a better product in the pipeline.

I don't think any family sized electric cars are getting a 400m plus range in real world driving conditions (fast acceleration, motorway speeds etc) yet. Namby pamby driving ekes out the range but is no fun and makes for tedious journeys. Seen a few claims but nothing really backed up by users.

Interesting times. My son is working in aerospace but spent a few days at the spitfire rebuild unit at Biggin Hill last week. (They also have one of the very few 109s with original B0B airframe and Benz engine in there.) The world of modern manufacturing is a world apart from those planes designed in the 1930s and still flying 80+ years after they were made.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Namby pamby driving ekes out the range but is no fun and makes for tedious journeys ...

Automatic braking and speed limiters are in the pipeline shortly anyway so all driving will be boring. Watch the price of decent second hand cars rocket then.

 

[AJB Temple]

Yep, the days of leisure driving are almost over. The pod era awaits.

 

[RogerS]

Yep, the days of leisure driving are almost over. The pod era awaits.

Just think of all that extra time they can spend reading and creating minutiae on their wee screens

Not to mention fanatical Googling for quackery and other wacko ideas. :eusa-whistle:

 

[Woodster]

Toyota claim to have cracked the battery problem, with a solid state battery that is half the weight cost and size that will give a 900 mile range. IF true it would be a complete game changer. Interesting times, but then our lives have always been in the most interesting period technologically.
Ian

Toyota seem to have been saying this since 2014?

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[Woodster]

I was looking to get some stuff from Philip Harris the other day and noticed this on their website:

I’ve just had an Amazon delivery by DPD but sadly it was a standard stinky van! :text-lol:



.

 

[RogerS]

I wouldn't get too excited, Woodster. They have three categories of delivery drivers...two of which usually supply their own van.

 

[Woodster]

I don’t see what that’s got to do with anything but it was only a matter of time before you chimed in with your usual negativity.

 

[RogerS]

I don’t see what that’s got to do with anything but it was only a matter of time before you chimed in with your usual negativity.

Well, first of all, it's called putting a balanced perspective.

Your usual whooping-up of all things EV without any attempt to actually standback and consider objectively the facts is getting tiresome.

You say 'I don’t see what that’s got to do with anything'. Let me try and explain things more simply to you in the hope that you can understand it. For DPD to continue to roll-out EV's as their delivery vehicle of choice is not a simple one-size-fits-all as should have been made abundantly clear from the post that I made. It significantly complicates DPD's business model.

They have two categories of driver who have the option of providing their own vehicle. When they do this, they get paid more per parcel. The driver does the maths and decides whether or not to supply their van. Now if DPD want to supply those drivers with EV's then how is that going to work financially ? Cut the money-per-parcel paid to each driver ? Just watch those drivers walk out of the door.

How do I know these things? Well, over the last six years, we've had several regular drivers from DPD who like to take their breaks at our place for a coffee and a chinwag.

Capische ?

 

[AJB Temple]

Leaving aside online spats, the actual position of delivery companies may be interesting. It seems to me that delivery operations work best for them (money) in densely populated areas. These are the very areas where politicians like to maximise revenue under the guise of green polices (Mr Khan this is you as prime example) by implementing high emission taxes on vehicles (plus tolls, congestion charges, etc). This may force the likes of DPD to implement electric vehicles in major cities, so they may as well make a virtue of it.

ULEZ and similar schemes are being rolled out in various places. Locals are up in arms (R4 yesterday had a programme on it - yet again) and people are driving the long way round to avoid emissions taxes. This actually increases emissions. There is a certain lack of joined up thinking about all this and the EV roll out in general.

 

[RogerS]

Leaving aside online spats, the actual position of delivery companies may be interesting. It seems to me that delivery operations work best for them (money) in densely populated areas. These are the very areas where politicians like to maximise revenue under the guise of green polices (Mr Khan this is you as prime example) by implementing high emission taxes on vehicles (plus tolls, congestion charges, etc). This may force the likes of DPD to implement electric vehicles in major cities, so they may as well make a virtue of it.

ULEZ and similar schemes are being rolled out in various places. Locals are up in arms (R4 yesterday had a programme on it - yet again) and people are driving the long way round to avoid emissions taxes. This actually increases emissions. There is a certain lack of joined up thinking about all this and the EV roll out in general.

:text-goodpost:

 

[Lons]

Yep, and as the revenue decreases both because people are avoiding the area or being forced to buy Evs then the powers that be have to devise even more creative ways to claw back that lost money. If you live in a ULEZ area and want some work done it's even more difficult now to find tradesmen as some are not willing to come and those that do just pass the costs on to the customer, as my niece is finding out in London.

Remember the big shift to diesel? We were actively encouraged to switch, "cleaner, cheaper to run etc." then when huge numbers of us switched the loss in fuel tax hit home and the gov slapped an extra 5p a litre tax on diesel. Anyone who thinks that EVs won't follow the same route or an expensive alternative like road charging won't be quickly and massively ramped up is living in cuckoo land. It's not difficult to hoodwink people when you have a large, legitimate umbrella under which to hide less legitimate actions. Politicians have been doing that forever.

I believe the revenue figures are around £28 billion in fuel tax and £7 billion RFL, the latter already being partly addressed as from 2025 EVs will also be subject to road fund licence as well as the over £40k list price extra 5 year tax cost.

 

[AJB Temple]

I agree. Having previously employed 55 people in a London City business until my shares were sold shortly prior to Covid, I would not dream of setting up there again. It is a significant added problem getting staff into the offices as rail strikes and congestion caused by cycle and bus lane over expansion, has made typical routes unusable in a sensible commute time. (Most staff lived East towards Southend direction). Almost all of our contractors (IT specialists mainly) were based in Chelmsford area (good road and rail links) and they tell me they now turn down London work. My BFF / business partner is moving out of London now. She moved from Greenwich to Bromley a couple of years ago and her experience (sizeable family property portfolio) is that prices for trades have doubled in the past 3 years. Everyone worth employing (ie not rodeo types) is passing on the environmental charges, congestion charges, tolls and eye watering parking charges to the customer as a daily extra cost on top. Try looking at skip costs in London now :shock: So, she's getting out. I would too.

Road pricing is inevitable - which will drive up the value of low tech but polluting old cars, and the taxation imposed on city dwellers. We encouraged my son to study in Europe and now live in Europe as the direction we are heading in the UK is not optimal for young people.