Small workshop

[MY63]

When you get your tensioning bolt, make sure that it is free to run in the female thread and lubricate it with some grease. Any type will do.

Bob[/quote]

Thanks Bob if it is ok with you when I have all of the pieces I will come back to your with pictures for more detailed instructions.
Michael

 

[MY63]

Todays progress.
I moved all of the insulation out of my garage into the garden and rammed as much as possible into my shed.
And then some into my neighbours shed I moved the wacker into the garden and spent the next 3 hours trying start it. I was worried about flooding it so I tried and then left it for a while and moved more hard core. It then dragged me around the garden for the next few hours. Everything is now compacted.
I did not get it levelled as I lost so much time with the starting issues but there is always another day.

I have a question about the insulation I was given it has plasterboard glued to it does the plasterboard need to be removed or can it be used as it is.
I am only asking as it does not want to come off. Maybe that is why it was free
I still have a lot of the glass type insulation.
When I dropped off the thank you biscuits I was told I was the first person to take them anything and if I ever need anymore I am welcome.

 

[TrimTheKing]

It’s just insulated plasterboard. It’s made that way so just use it as it is.

 

[RogerS]

It’s just insulated plasterboard. It’s made that way so just use it as it is.

Plasterboard surface facing inside

 

[MY63]

Oh at least that is good news thanks
I have just spoken to my friend who loaned me the Wacker he thinks I need to do some more work with it as I mentioned one or two low spots. So if it is dry tomorrow I will be adding more hardcore and going round again. But I will have a good solid foundation. And I am also doing the path at the same time.

 

[MY63]

Good news I have managed to obtain a new window from a local supplier for £50 we have had some rain today so it was better use of my time. It is not a large window but natural light will darken untreated leather.

I have not done anything today due to the rain but this is where I left off last night

2019-01-14_04-16-40 by my0771, on Flickr

I put the timber there to give me an idea of where the high and low spots are.

 

[RogerS]

You're making great progress, Michael.

I'm sorry about the rain...we decided over here to the West of you that we'd 'share the lurv' :lol:

Feb 4th I'm at Morpeth for a hospital appointment and Jan 29th at the RVI so might be able to pop round for an hour or so if you're stuck for labour.

 

[MY63]

Thanks Roger
Oh do you think I will still be working on it by then. I want it finished asap.
I saw the weather forecast last week and it said we had 10 dry days coming I think we have had two.
Although I read something last night about a chipboard flooring with a hardwearing plastic coating that may push my budget even more.
You could give me a shout next time you are heading to Axminster and we could meet there.

 

[Malc2098]

Looking good.

 

[MY63]

Just back from the hospital after having laser treatment to my right eye I hope this means I will be able to get the foundations level now.

 

[Malc2098]

Just back from the hospital after having laser treatment to my right eye I hope this means I will be able to get the foundations level now.

So that's why mine were all wobbly! :shock:

 

[MY63]

My freshly lasered eye worked like a charm I gently raked the high spots and added and it tamped down quite easily. Starting at the path and using the straightest timber and a brand new shiny level I worked my way around the other sides making sure they were all at the same level.
When I brought the first block in it was fine and the second the third knocked them to one side so I will have to start over. Rain tomorrow snow Thursday time to go back to leather work

I have two questions can the barrier material go under these concrete blocks?

Where I have removed the grass and a little soil for elsewhere inside the blocks I now have quite a gap.
I happen to have 3 large sheets of polystyrene that would fill the hole nicely it would mean the inside of the blocks would be at the same height as the outside still leaving the planned air gap or does there need to be a large gap below would this sit above or below the barrier material ?

Thanks

 

[Mike G]

.......I have two questions can the barrier material go under these concrete blocks?

What barrier material? I presume you are talking about the concrete lintels when you say blocks. Is that right?

Where I have removed the grass and a little soil for elsewhere inside the blocks I now have quite a gap.
I happen to have 3 large sheets of polystyrene that would fill the hole nicely it would mean the inside of the blocks would be at the same height as the outside still leaving the planned air gap or does there need to be a large gap below would this sit above or below the barrier material ?

If you are talking about filling in between the lintels with polystyrene, hard up to the underside of a suspended floor, then the answer is no, you need air circulation to evaporate away any condensation or other moisture that finds its way into the void. If that isn't what you were asking, then my apologies.

 

[MY63]

Sorry I really did not explain that very well at all did I.

Yes when I said blocks I meant lintels sorry about that as I am having stone around the outer edges of the lintels and will be laying a weed barrier around the outside of the lintels as well as inside the lintels . So my question was can the weed barrier be laid under the lintels.

The second question the centre area of the lintels does not have any hardcore in it and will have weed barrier it is about 5 cm below the level of the bottom of the lintels the idea of the polystyrene was to fill this gap up to the outside ground level but would still leave an air gap between the bottom of the joists and the polystyrene.
Having re read your post I think this is a bad idea

Mike are you saying the 150 mm of the joists should not be filled completely with insulation ie it should have 100 mm with 50mm for air.

Thanks

 

[Mike G]

Thanks for the clarification.

The weed barrier can (in fact, probably should) be trapped down at the edges by the lintels.

There is absolutely no benefit in putting polystyrene on the ground. Ideally you would have a slight hump rather than a depression in the centre of the area enclosed by the lintels, so it didn't fill with water. Putting polystyrene in there in a hollow would just mean polystyrene floating in a puddle.

Insulating the floor should be done in such a way that air can still circulate below the floor, drying off the bottom edge of the joists. This means the insulation should be between the joists but not below them. If you have 150 deep joists, you can fill with 150 of insulation, so long as there is a clear void (minimum 50mm, hopefully more) left below that.

 

[MY63]

Ok Thanks I have it now.
I can rework the ground under the floor to make sure there is no hollow.

Is there a trick to stop the lintels digging into the hard core base when moving them. I have them resting on pieces of wood waiting to be moved into place.
I would like to get the lintels in place and maybe the DPC in place as the weather is going to change tomorrow.
Thanks

 

[Mike G]

I'm not sure you want to avoid them digging in......so long as they all dig in the same amount. I'd perhaps be tempted to position them a foot or two away but parallel with their final location, then roll them into place. I'd then take either a rubber mallet, or a lump hammer and a cushioning piece of 4x2, and tap them down to line and level.

 

[MY63]

Ok time to go and do it..

 

[9fingers]

The trick would be to lift them into place, right first time and then place on the hardcore.
I would not expect well whacked hardcore to be moving much?
To give you some wriggle room, you could place two thin , short pieces of wood at right angles to the lintel position one near each end. Lift the lintel onto those and get it into final location, then remove the strips one at a time.

Bob

 

[MY63]

Thanks Bob it has started raining quite heavy now so I think I will stop for an early lunch

2019-01-16_11-04-25 by my0771, on Flickr

When moving the lintels I was lifting one end andmoving it as one end went up the other end went down and dug into the hard core Mike suggestion of rolling them into place has helped. All 8 lintels are now in place as I am working on my own I am being very careful when lifting especially the 1.8 m ones I really wish I had bought 3 x 1.2m ones which I can just about manage rather than 2 x 1.8m ones which are difficult to say the least.
Thanks

 

[MY63]

Time for a rethink re reading what Mike G and Bob have said and as I have unlimited use of a whacker clearly as I am getting movement it is not whacked enough.

I have cleared away the lintels and will remove the weed material later before going back to the whacker.

I must apologise for not listening earlier to what was being said.

 

[TrimTheKing]

You will always get a bit of movement of the top layer if you’re dragging the lintels over it. If you’re concerned then stick a little more down and whacker it to oblivion, then put the lintels back and either take a bit out to bring it down or hammer and block as Mike says.

 

[Mike G]

Don't worry about re-whacking. I would be perfectly happy to see this sort of building built on, say, a trench full of unconsolidated pea-shingle. Get all the lintels in the right sort of place, and whack them all down to line and level.....force some extra material into any obvious low bits, and undermine any high bits which cause a see-saw effect, and that really will do. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if you are really struggling to bed things properly, just chuck a few spadefuls of sand down around the line of the lintels, and sit them on that. The building will acts as one, and the lintels' job is simply to hold it up in the air off the ground. You aren't aiming to replicate a concrete foundation with whacked-down hardcore.

 

[Mike G]

.......... If you’re concerned then stick a little more down and whacker it to oblivion.......

No, I really wouldn't do that. You want some loose stuff on the top for the lintels to settle into. Whacking the lintels once they're in position is all the consolidation that the substrate requires.

 

[TrimTheKing]

.......... If you’re concerned then stick a little more down and whacker it to oblivion.......

No, I really wouldn't do that. You want some loose stuff on the top for the lintels to settle into. Whacking the lintels once they're in position is all the consolidation that the substrate requires.

<Crawls back into his hole...>

[emoji1787]

 

[MY63]

Ok I will give it a another go I am going to remove the weed material for now as it is stopping me from seeing where the lintels are sitting I can put it back later.

 

[MY63]

Since lunch time I have removed the weed barrier gave everything a light rake and started again laying one side then levelling it as Mike said adding where needed and removing material from the high spots.

2019-01-16_04-13-52 by my0771, on Flickr

Once everything was level I have started going around each corner squaring them up this may take some time as it seems to involve re levelling everything as I go.
Thanks for keeping me on track.

 

[RogerS]

Seriously good progress, Michael. You should be dead chuffed.

 

[DaveL]

Seriously good progress, Michael. You should be dead chuffed.

+1 [emoji3]

 

[9fingers]

Seriously good progress, Michael. You should be dead chuffed.

:text-+1:

Things will really start moving now as your work goes from a 2D frame on the ground to a 3D structure.

No wonder you were having a bit of trouble shifting those lintels - I'd wrongly assumed you were using the 50 x100mm nom section ones.

Bob

 

[Mike G]

Well done Michael. As far as I know this is the first workshop to be built from my forum posting on this technique, so I am watching with interest.

 

[MY63]

Thanks Roger I am indeed as you say "chuffed" I took it steadily all afternoon wearing knee pads and standing up frequently to let the blood reach my feet.
I think I am going to rest tomorrow especially as it is forecast for a drop in temperature so indoor work for me

 

[Malc2098]

:text-+1:

As my ole dad used to say, a blind man would pleased to see it!

Well done!

 

[MY63]

Well done Michael. As far as I know this is the first workshop to be built from my forum posting on this technique, so I am watching with interest.

I have to be honest I struggled to find any examples of workshops built to your design and without your support I doubt I would have attempted it.
Yes Bob 150 x 100 mm lintels I can just lift the 1.2 m ones but the 1.8m I did not even try I inherited a little sack barrow from my Father in law which even worked on the uneven ground.
I have used crow bars pieces of wood bricks and anything else to move the lintels around.
Your tip about thin pieces of wood worked well especially when I stopped lifting the lintels too high digging holes.

That is a bit harsh Malcolm it looks good from the kitchen window and that is where my long suffering wife will see it from

I will admit my forearms are killing me now.

 

[AndyP]

Could it have been easier to level those lintels by laying them on a bed of mortar?

 

[MY63]

Could it have been easier to level those lintels by laying them on a bed of mortar?

Hold on Andy I am just re reading all the bits about mortar.
I am prepared though to get free delivery on he jumbo bags I had to spend over £50 and the bags were £45 so I added bags of sand to each order not knowing how much I needed so I have 6 small bags of sand and 1 bag of cement. I had read 6 to one was a strong ratio.
I still have more levelling to do.
I bought what I thought was the correct straps for fixing the sole plate to the lintel but they are about 3mm and Mike mentioned “on a roll” mine would not roll do I need to return them. I did think they may be good for fixing the lintels on the inside corner but I don’t think they will ever move.

At least I now know what my dimensions will be I can write out my cutting list now.

 

[Malc2098]

:text-+1:

As my ole dad used to say, a blind man would pleased to see it!

Well done!

No offence, Michael. I was little when he used to say it and didn't understand till I was building my 'shop and an old mate said the same thing.

I think it can be translated as sometimes, good enough is more than good enough.

 

[Mike G]

Could it have been easier to level those lintels by laying them on a bed of mortar?

The premise of this design was to take concrete and mortar out of the process, for people who aren't comfortable with those materials. Mortar would make bedding them to level easier, but would soon break up as the substrate isn't solid or cohesive. That wouldn't matter.

 

[Mike G]

.......I bought what I thought was the correct straps for fixing the sole plate to the lintel but they are about 3mm......

Those are the normal heavy duty tie down straps for houses and so on. They'll be massively too long, and overkill for this little shed. My 30m sq workshop only has the thin universal banding on a roll, which is loads cheaper, and you can just snip it with tin snips, so that's what I suggest is used.

 

[MY63]

:text-+1:

As my ole dad used to say, a blind man would pleased to see it!

Well done!

No offence, Michael. I was little when he used to say it and didn't understand till I was building my 'shop and an old mate said the same thing.

I think it can be translated as sometimes, good enough is more than good enough.

No offence taken I appreciate the humor as I said it looks fine from the kitchen window 10 m away :lol: