• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

Small workshop

Malc2098":32xukvp8 said:
I'm not sure the plasterboard backed insulation will survive the damp outside, Michael. The foil backed and paper backed should.
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The plasterboard won't. It will get all soggy and manky.
 
I spoke to the timber merchant yesterday about flooring options they came up with a 22mm pro tech panels 2400mm x 600mm sealed on both sides with a non slip coating.
I have ordered 8 sheets which is two more than I need but I am planning on using the extra as bench tops.
 
RogerS":15h05os4 said:
Malc2098":15h05os4 said:
I'm not sure the plasterboard backed insulation will survive the damp outside, Michael. The foil backed and paper backed should.
Click to expand...

The plasterboard won't. It will get all soggy and manky.
Click to expand...

Thanks for reminding me I am going to try not to use the insulation with plasterboard attached I think I will keep the best pieces for the roof. There are going to be lots of roof questions next week.

I have four cases to make over the next few days so I dont think I will have much opportunity to prepare for the floor but it does not arrive until Monday.
Speaking of the floor it only worked out a little more than the standard chipboard £162 for 8 sheets including vat and one bottle of D4 glue.
 
I was curious about the floor panels so looked them up - actually Protect panels

https://www.egger.com/shop/en_GB//PROTE ... /p/PROTECT

Interesting to see even a website from a market leader in sheet goods can contain howlers.

Whilst extolling the virtues of these 60 day weather resistant boards they claim

"Boards can be easily scrapped and washed to give a clean, professional look prior to handover." :lol: :lol: :lol:

1/10 score for the website proof reader

Letter to the makers

"Dear Mr Egger
I scrapped my floor as your website suggested but the customer refused to accept it" :lol:

Bob
 
Nice spot Bob at first I thought you were referring to the fact that my timber merchant have it as Pro Tech when it is actually called Protect which made me smile.
 
I need to order the 11mm OSB3 for the inside walls and roof my internal dimensions are 2.4m x 3.4m as my budget went out of the window (around the time I bought the window) :D I don't have huge amounts of spare cash to make mistakes. But I am not going to cut corners.
I am having trouble working out how many sheets are required so far I am planning on 13 sheets 2440mm x 1220mm.
I know there will be some waste but I think I can use it for shelves etc.
EDIT
I have worked it out and 13 sheets is enough :)
 
I was rubbish at estimating how much material I needed.

But I am still finding the leftover offcuts useful for all sorts of things.

Last week I made an offcuts box from 18mm OSB to go on a wheeled dolly. The week before, I used some 18mm OSB to make the drawer sides for the Kapex cabinet because I didn't have enough recycled 3/4" ply.

If you over order, you will always find uses for it.
 
Malc2098":3i8q43en said:
I was rubbish at estimating how much material I needed.

But I am still finding the leftover offcuts useful for all sorts of things.

Last week I made an offcuts box from 18mm OSB to go on a wheeled dolly. The week before, I used some 18mm OSB to make the drawer sides for the Kapex cabinet because I didn't have enough recycled 3/4" ply.

If you over order, you will always find uses for it.
Click to expand...

Thanks Malcolm I am interested in using the french cleats you made for your Kapex unit in fact I am thinking my bench sanders might need such a unit. Do the French cleats need to be a particular size.
 
MY63":348uvo6a said:
Thanks Malcolm I am interested in using the french cleats you made for your Kapex unit in fact I am thinking my bench sanders might need such a unit. Do the French cleats need to be a particular size.
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No particular size in my experience, but I found the angles at 45 degrees of each part of the cleat appears to be the most stable under load.

I used 4' lengths of leftover ply cut into about 6" strips and then ripped them at 45 degrees along their middle. I used this all around the walls of the workshop, so that I can hang anything I want anywhere I want. And I've moved shelves and racks quite a few time already as I establish work practices.

As you've seen, I've also used the principle to join cabinets together that I don't necessarily want permanently joined.
 
Thanks Malcolm
I am going to re read your post on the Kapex rack when I start the inside.
I am keeping all of the offcuts just as I have kept the 2 x 2 in frame of the old shed.

This morning I have fitted the top plates I decided against adding an overhang at the front if it rains I will shut the doors :D IF :lol: :lol: :lol:

2019-02-09_01-40-05 by my0771, on Flickr

Noggins in place well they all ended up in different places but it is done and I am happy. It is very windy here today I would like to put some hard insulation into the floor joists today but messing about with big sheets is not a good idea.
 
Coolhands":z0mtdozr said:
Wow that looks good, I hadn’t seen this thread for a while
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Thanks
Yesterdays stong winds blew the weed barrier all over the garden so I tidied that up this afternoon sorting out the scraps as I did so. I have also laid the barrier inside the floor in preparation for the flooring arriving I think it may be Wednesday by the time I get it as I have lots of hospital appointments on Tuesday.

When I made the front frame I left the upper of the two lower sole plates across the door opening I am sure I read somewhere MikeG saying this should be removed but I cannot find the post. You can see it in the picture below.

2019-02-10_05-41-30 by my0771, on Flickr
 
MY63":32siosad said:
......When I made the front frame I left the upper of the two lower sole plates across the door opening I am sure I read somewhere MikeG saying this should be removed but I cannot find the post. You can see it in the picture below........
Click to expand...

When there is a brick plinth on a concrete base, the relationship between the frame and the floor is quite different. The frame is actually nearly a foot off the floor, and the plinth stops either side of the opening. I recommend leaving the sole plate in place across the opening in those circumstances, until all the hammering etc has finished on the outside of the building, as it keeps everything properly located. Then cut it out of the way when it comes time to do the door frame. With your method of construction, the sole plate is at floor level. You could take out the upper one and leave the lower one in place, as that will leave a little upstand of about 22mm above the flooring, which will be a rather neat detail at the threshold. Or you could leave both in, if it suits you. They don't have any structural function once the building is finished.
 
Thanks Mike I wonder if I have made an error here the top of my floor joists are level with the top of the lower plate. If I add the 22mm flooring as it stands the top of the upper plate will be 23mm above the top of the floor.
I hope that make sense.
 
No, that's fine. My mistake. Obviously the joists hang off the lower plate, so the upper plate is 45mm above them. Take off the floorboard thickness and that'll be the 23mm difference.
 
Thanks Mike
I am going to order the OSB3 this morning is this the material that requires a 3mm gap at all joints? or am I confusing this with something else.
 
It doesn't have to be 3mm. I use a 2.5mm nail top and bottom between sheets as a spacer.........but yes, OSB can sometimes be a bit ill-behaved, and allowing a gap is useful insurance against this. Remember, the OSB need only be 9mm. Some people, for some reason, use much thicker than this.
 
Mike G":2hzfonch said:
It doesn't have to be 3mm. I use a 2.5mm nail top and bottom between sheets as a spacer.........but yes, OSB can sometimes be a bit ill-behaved, and allowing a gap is useful insurance against this. Remember, the OSB need only be 9mm. Some people, for some reason, use much thicker than this.
Click to expand...

LOL, that would be me! :D

I asked Mike for some advise recently as I have been insulating and lining my concrete sectional garage and I used the 18mm stuff. I used a 3mm packer between my boards and this seems to have worked fine.

There was some method to my madness though. My workshop is in a residential area and I don't want the noise of my new joinery business interfering with my neighbours, my thinking was that the extra mass of the thicker OSB would help with noise retention.

For extra OCD points I also ripped 100mm wide trim strips out of my spare OSB3 and nailed these over the joints, caulked the edges and given it all a couple of coats of paint.

Cracking job on your workshop btw. I've been lurking and reading this thread since the beginning. :eusa-clap: :eusa-clap:

Will
 
Not just you Will. I think there are one or two using 18mm boards for lining. Managing that without giving yourself a hernia counts as a bonus. :D
 
I have to admit I am not sure who I was influenced by I have read so much, Although when I went to the timber merchant this afternoon I asked if it was worth changing my order to 9 mm they only stock 8mm or 11mm so I stuck with the 11mm I did buy more weed barrier.

I thought I was going to run out of screws over the weekend and looked for them elsewhere I have been buying Reisser 5 x 80mm £9.50 for 200 at Percy Hudson my local timber merchant.
Tool station same screws £15.87 for 200
Screwfix dont have the same size the nearest was 6x100mm £9.79 for 100.
I think sometimes we assume that these stores are cheaper than the local independant supplier
Caveat Emptor my friends
 
Mike G":i6y0m6wu said:
Not just you Will. I think there are one or two using 18mm boards for lining. Managing that without giving yourself a hernia counts as a bonus. :D
Click to expand...

LOL the wife helped out, I'd be in hospital now if I'd attempted it alone!

That's a serious price variation, I also had assumed that the likes of TS and SF would be cheaper because of their buying volume/power. I guess their overheads are a lot higher and their main market is the DIYer though.
 
Flooring arrived yesterday along with 13 sheets of OSB3. I have to be honest the flooring is way heavier than I was expecting 2.4m x 600mm x 22mm around 25kg per sheet. My first plan was to stack them in the garden until fitted. Then I panicked and decided to bring them inside as the hard insulation is now outside under cover I had some room in the garage so we had to pick it all up and bring it back inside.

Finishing the insulation under the floor today is the goal so I can start laying the flooring which according to the manufacturer's web site is glued only except the first piece which has one nail or screw per joist.

https://www.egger.com/shop/en_GB//PROTE ... /p/PROTECT

Any tips
 
I have another tip for you. :) Use an offcut with a groove if you have to tap a board into place and that board has a tongue where you need to hammer.........and vice versa. You simply place the scrap over the protruding tongue and whack it with a big hammer, thus protecting the tongue itself from damage.

Another tip!! :) Keep your pile of boards all orientated the same way as the floor you are laying, and the right way up. Lay the first row of boards, then take the offcut from the end, and, still orientated the same way, go to the beginning of the next row and use it there, cutting the outside end to the appropriate length. Keeping organised is important, because it is easy to make a cock-up otherwise.
 
Mike G":3ikn4yij said:
I have another tip for you. :) Use an offcut with a groove if you have to tap a board into place and that board has a tongue where you need to hammer.........and vice versa. You simply place the scrap over the protruding tongue and whack it with a big hammer, thus protecting the tongue itself from damage.

Another tip!! :) Keep your pile of boards all orientated the same way as the floor you are laying, and the right way up. Lay the first row of boards, then take the offcut from the end, and, still orientated the same way, go to the beginning of the next row and use it there, cutting the outside end to the appropriate length. Keeping organised is important, because it is easy to make a cock-up otherwise.
Click to expand...

Good tips there Mike, I use both of those when doing laminate flooring work, makes it so much quicker.
 
Ok so due to my own mistakes with the positioning of the vents and therefore the position of the joists.
My 2.4 m flooring panels did not land on a joist I did not think of this at the outset and removed the tongue from the end to give me a finished edge.
Anyway rather than trying to explain my mistakes it meant I was not able to use the offcut to start the next piece. clearly that was why I over ordered by two pieces ( oh no it wasn't) :D
Had I not trimmed the tongue off I would have been able to add an extra joint and have two spare pieces.
Did I mention how heavy these panels are :D :D :D and awkward to lift. Fortunately my son was feeling well enough to help me this afternoon.

What the instructions do not mention is that the pieces do not fit together without a small gap no matter how hard you hit it. The special D4 adhesive expands as it goes off the adhesion is impressive we were walking on the pieces as we laid the next row and you could tell by the tone of the noise it was solid.

2019-02-14_05-54-48 by my0771, on Flickr

I would have liked to have the last row done but it was actually almost dark when I took this picture but it needs 20 mm taken off the edge. I removed the tongue from the other edge so I need to take double off this side.
 
Thanks Malcolm

As the floor is almost finished and I can get a ladder in I need to start thinking about the roof.
My beam is much longer than required so will need to be cut to size does it require any overhang or should it be flush with the end of the frame.

The next question is about cutting the angles of the rafters as well as the birds mouth ?
 
Your ridge beam only need be long enough to go from the outside of the wall plate to the outside of the wall plate, so long as you aren't planning on roof overhangs at the gables.
 
I did quite a lot yesterday so I took this morning off :D yes I was too knackered to do anything.
I got started after lunch with the last section of the floor and for some strange reason I cut a piece the same as the last one I cut yesterday which was another mistake :eusa-doh: fortunately I had another piece which I had over ordered which I am now going to claim that I clearly predicted my mistakes.

If anyone ever uses this flooring it appears to be designed with a small gap when fitted together to allow the glue to come through.
OH and while I am on about it do not get any D4 glue on your hands it does not come off I was wearing gloves but when clearing up I picked up the bottle and there was some on the side of the bottle which I now cannot get off my hand. I am sure it will sand off in a few days.

2019-02-15_05-24-51 by my0771, on Flickr

Thanks for the link Roger unfortunately the smallest angle is 3 degrees and I think I am somewhere around 2 degrees. I have tried marking one out without success I have lifted the ridge by 25mm to add some slope.
I have cut the ridge joint to the correct angle but when I cut the birds mouth I think that will alter it so maybe I need to cut the birds mouth first.
 
Mike G":2gicosxa said:
You need one of these, Michael:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stanley-To...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00002X2HO
Click to expand...

Thanks Mile I already have a simple version without the sliding component my question is does it come with fool proof instructions with the emphasis on the "fool"

I am still worried about the gaps under the first and second lower plates should I try to squeeze some filler in there or remove the screws and use wedges to lift it and add the filler or leave it alone and move on.
 
I was going to say it is many years since I have done something like this but in fact I don't think I have ever taken on such a big project. I have now learned how to mark out a rafter using my speed square :)

2019-02-16_04-55-24 by my0771, on Flickr

Currently the first and the last rafters are fixed the rest are all fixed only to the ridge beam at present.

From everything I have read I believe the next step is to fit the OSB 3 to the inside helping me to ensure that everything is square before fastening the roof in place.
Is the OSB3 ok if it gets wet
 
Goodness, that's so shallow you could have cut it out of one solid piece! Are you squeezing in under a height restriction, because I am sure that would look a bit better if it was a bit more of a pitch.

-

I reckon you're doing a brilliant job, Michael, and I hope you are proud of what you've achieved so far. :eusa-clap: :eusa-clap:
 
Yes Mike I am trying to stay below 2.5 m how much do you think I would need to lift the ridge by for it to look better?

BTW I tried to squeeze some "gunk" in the gaps but it di not work very well I think the shape of the corners of the timber is making me think there are gaps where there are none.
 
I'd take it as high as you could to stay under your limit. What's the top of the ridge at now?
 
It’s about 30mm under at the moment I still need to fit the boards and the EDPM which will take most of that. I originally had 45mm blocks supporting the ridge beam but that would have taken me over. On the bright side I am still about 200mm below my neighbour :) who claims he has planning permission. There is no record on the planning portal and it is right up to the boundary which happens to be my brothers house. My neighbour on the other side has plastic sheds against our fence but I don’t mind as she is my sister..
Is re cutting the birds mouth joints an option to give more slope to the roof.
 
I have been thinking about the height issue does anyone know where in my garden the measurement is taken from.
We live on a hill over the years I have levelled out the part nearer the house but the back has decking which hides the slope it has 3 steps at the front but is 100mm above ground at the rear. The rear fence is 1.8m high from the ground but my workshop is still lower even with the roof.

Is the height restriction taken from the highest or lowest point of the garden?
 
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