• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

Trimble Towers Workshop - Fitting out begins...

9fingers":1qnkdd6y said:
Malc2098":1qnkdd6y said:
You're a wicked boy, dave! And it's down!! :D
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Absolutely correct and although our Scottish friends are least likely to conform to this norm, it is always "UP" to the capital city. :lol:
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I'm here all week! #havetheveal :)

Your brickwork is looking fab btw Mark, great progress.
 
ScotlandtheDave":3p9gaylz said:
Your brickwork is looking fab btw Mark, great progress.
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Thanks Dave.

Steel men came to measure up this afternoon and will get me a price for Monday. Initially sucked their teeth at the possibility of having it before Christmas but a bit of gentle banter back and forth and they softened but let's see… :D

Cheers
Mark
 
TrimTheKing":2pna3k3t said:
.... Initially sucked their teeth at the possibility of having it before Christmas...
Mark
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Tell me about. I get the distinct impression that the country is already starting to switch off. Which for someone like me who doesn't really bother with Christmas, that is a real PITA !
 
Rod":1642w8fx said:
I take it the steels are for your roof - did you show us a plan/layout st some time?

Rod
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Yes mate a few pages back I think. There is a diagonal of brickwork between the two roof sections that needs supporting and the structural engineer has also specced steel ridge beams so I don't need any rafter braces.

Here it is, the steel goes in resting on the inner skin of blockwork on the corner of the 1m return wall over to the rear long wall and has a steel plate welded to the bottom that the outer brickwork is laid upon. Hope that makes sense...



Cheers
Mark
 
So we've made it to the top of the walls yesterday!



Work stops for a bit now as the steel men are supposed so be coming back with a price on Monday and hopefully a proposed install date.

I had a bit of a chat with them as got them to admit that all the parts required are off the shelf so really it's quite a simple job, which made them smile. [emoji6]. They said they would see what they could do about getting it in before Christmas...

Plastic weighted down over the cavities to keep them dry for now and let's see what happens next week. I've decided that I'm going to do much of the roof myself wth some steer from builder and you guys so that will mean progress is a bit slower but will give me a sense that I've done at least some of it myself (plus the old bank balance is feeling the strain...!

Cheers
Mark
 
Wow, Mark. Looking good.

Bung up a tarp over the gables and sides and you could start working in there before Christmas!!
 
Why does the brickwork finish so much lower than the blockwork in those window openings? Or are they not finished yet?
 
Andyp":2djx7dyh said:
Why does the brickwork finish so much lower than the blockwork in those window openings? Or are they not finished yet?
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There's a stone cill still to go in there but I haven't chosen the style yet.

Cheers
Mark
 
Andyp":ntmbzjob said:
Why does the brickwork finish so much lower than the blockwork in those window openings? Or are they not finished yet?
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I think the brickwork has the top course in the window opening looks 'finished' as it were. Be interesting to hear what Mark has planned.

Does anyone else have any problems loading the actual image from Photobucket when you double click on the thread photo ? I just get an icon going round and round and round and .....then you get a splash screen telling you to "enjoy all the benefits of a Photobucket subscriber" and it is impossible to close it. Kind of makes me want to never, ever consider using Photobucket for myself. Just seems excruciatingly slow.
 
When I click on the photo, It opens up Mark's gallery in PB. I've got a PB account, so perhaps that's why it works for me.
 
Malc2098":x7koup20 said:
When I click on the photo, It opens up Mark's gallery in PB. I've got a PB account, so perhaps that's why it works for me.
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No, I don't think it's that as I discovered I do have a Photobucket account with precisely one photo in it ! Still goes round...and round....and round ....and...........................
 
RogerS":e2t0uywp said:
Malc2098":e2t0uywp said:
When I click on the photo, It opens up Mark's gallery in PB. I've got a PB account, so perhaps that's why it works for me.
Click to expand...

No, I don't think it's that as I discovered I do have a Photobucket account with precisely one photo in it ! Still goes round...and round....and round ....and...........................
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Works fine for me on both my home Mac and work PC. It's you Roger. [emoji6]

Cheers
Mark
 
TrimTheKing":qwj39wgk said:
RogerS":qwj39wgk said:
Malc2098":qwj39wgk said:
When I click on the photo, It opens up Mark's gallery in PB. I've got a PB account, so perhaps that's why it works for me.
Click to expand...

No, I don't think it's that as I discovered I do have a Photobucket account with precisely one photo in it ! Still goes round...and round....and round ....and...........................
Click to expand...

Works fine for me on both my home Mac and work PC. It's you Roger. [emoji6]

Cheers
Mark
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Are you running Adblock on Safari (Mac), Mark? I just tried Firefox and it was fine. Then switched off Extensions in Safari and also fine. Selectively turned on the Extensions and Adblock causes the problem.
 
TrimTheKing":obnj8kzm said:
Yes mate a few pages back I think. There is a diagonal of brickwork between the two roof sections that needs supporting and the structural engineer has also specced steel ridge beams so I don't need any rafter braces.


Cheers
Mark
Click to expand...

Which braces are not needed Mark, Diagonals under the rafters, longitudinal, collar near the ridge?

I can see the need for support under the return brickwork/block work on the internal return but I do not know how a steel ridge beam replaces the bracing.

My learning has been that bracing in the roof counteracts any wind forces acting on the gable (pushing against or puling effect caused by a vacuum of passing wind). The effect the bracing in a roof acts similar to bracing in a ledge and braced door.......... it stops any forces pushing or pulling it out of shape. If wind forces, push against your gable how does the steel ridge at the top stop the wind from pushing the roof and gable over?

I'd just like to obtain an understanding of the engineers theory regarding how the steel ridge counters the forces on the gable :eusa-think:

Any clues Mark.

Cheers Mark
 
RogerS":2eunms67 said:
Does anyone else have any problems loading the actual image from Photobucket when you double click on the thread photo ? I just get an icon going round and round and round and .....then you get a splash screen telling you to "enjoy all the benefits of a Photobucket subscriber" and it is impossible to close it. Kind of makes me want to never, ever consider using Photobucket for myself. Just seems excruciatingly slow.
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It's fine from way down South.


Maybe your connection Roger? Which is just going to get worse the further North you move from civilisation! :lol:

The last time we were up that way, there were people running around with Royal cleft sticks delivering the mail.
 
TrimTheKing":2y7mnkvl said:
Not by choice I'm not, is it a built in thing or a 3rd party extension?

Mark
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3rd party extension. Blocks ads...does exactly what it says on the tin. But a lot of sites are starting to baulk at people who use it.
 
RogerS":39sqnbrt said:
TrimTheKing":39sqnbrt said:
Not by choice I'm not, is it a built in thing or a 3rd party extension?

Mark
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3rd party extension. Blocks ads...does exactly what it says on the tin. But a lot of sites are starting to baulk at people who use it.
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Agree, PhotoB being one of them if you are a free-loader. Also one of the U-T converters.
 
meccarroll":2ksjwx7e said:
TrimTheKing":2ksjwx7e said:
Yes mate a few pages back I think. There is a diagonal of brickwork between the two roof sections that needs supporting and the structural engineer has also specced steel ridge beams so I don't need any rafter braces.


Cheers
Mark
Click to expand...

Which braces are not needed Mark, Diagonals under the rafters, longitudinal, collar near the ridge?

I can see the need for support under the return brickwork/block work on the internal return but I do not know how a steel ridge beam replaces the bracing.

My learning has been that bracing in the roof counteracts any wind forces acting on the gable (pushing against or puling effect caused by a vacuum of passing wind). The effect the bracing in a roof acts similar to bracing in a ledge and braced door.......... it stops any forces pushing or pulling it out of shape. If wind forces, push against your gable how does the steel ridge at the top stop the wind from pushing the roof and gable over?

I'd just like to obtain an understanding of the engineers theory regarding how the steel ridge counters the forces on the gable :eusa-think:

Any clues Mark.

Cheers Mark
Click to expand...

I'll be interested in this too. I've been looking back through the thread and did not find a drawing showing the steels. No doubt we will get pictures when the steel skeleton is (being) installed.

Bob
 
meccarroll":2m773q2o said:
TrimTheKing":2m773q2o said:
Yes mate a few pages back I think. There is a diagonal of brickwork between the two roof sections that needs supporting and the structural engineer has also specced steel ridge beams so I don't need any rafter braces.


Cheers
Mark
Click to expand...

Which braces are not needed Mark, Diagonals under the rafters, longitudinal, collar near the ridge?

I can see the need for support under the return brickwork/block work on the internal return but I do not know how a steel ridge beam replaces the bracing.

My learning has been that bracing in the roof counteracts any wind forces acting on the gable (pushing against or puling effect caused by a vacuum of passing wind). The effect the bracing in a roof acts similar to bracing in a ledge and braced door.......... it stops any forces pushing or pulling it out of shape. If wind forces, push against your gable how does the steel ridge at the top stop the wind from pushing the roof and gable over?

I'd just like to obtain an understanding of the engineers theory regarding how the steel ridge counters the forces on the gable :eusa-think:

Any clues Mark.

Cheers Mark
Click to expand...

Hi Mark

Short answer, I haven't clue! I will run it by him but I've spoken with Mike G and unless I misinterpreted his take on it my understanding is that with the steel ridge beam I no longer need any kind of horizontal bracing across the rafters at any height, the reasons why though I didn't venture into.

Perhaps if Mike reads this he can add some insight otherwise I will ask the structural engineer to clarify to make sure I haven't misunderstood his intentions, but I was very clear in my remit which was to have steelwork built that would enable me to not have any horizontal ties between rafters if at all possible.

Just reading your comments again though, I fail to see how collar ties or any kind of horizontal bracing would protect from what you describe! Surely collar ties or eaves height joists are surely just there to stop the weight of the roof from spreading the walls apart…!? None of that would help or prevent the wind effects on the gable… :eusa-think:

Cheers
Mark
 
Gable stability is normally achieved by diagonal bracing eg from the ends of a ridge diagonally across the roof surface to the wall plates .

This can be overt braces or by means of sheet decking attached to all the rafters which has a similar effect.

Bob
 
TrimTheKing":1w0etlfn said:
meccarroll":1w0etlfn said:
TrimTheKing":1w0etlfn said:
Yes mate a few pages back I think. There is a diagonal of brickwork between the two roof sections that needs supporting and the structural engineer has also specced steel ridge beams so I don't need any rafter braces.


Cheers
Mark
Click to expand...

Which braces are not needed Mark, Diagonals under the rafters, longitudinal, collar near the ridge?

I can see the need for support under the return brickwork/block work on the internal return but I do not know how a steel ridge beam replaces the bracing.

My learning has been that bracing in the roof counteracts any wind forces acting on the gable (pushing against or puling effect caused by a vacuum of passing wind). The effect the bracing in a roof acts similar to bracing in a ledge and braced door.......... it stops any forces pushing or pulling it out of shape. If wind forces, push against your gable how does the steel ridge at the top stop the wind from pushing the roof and gable over?

I'd just like to obtain an understanding of the engineers theory regarding how the steel ridge counters the forces on the gable :eusa-think:

Any clues Mark.

Cheers Mark
Click to expand...

Hi Mark

Short answer, I haven't clue! I will run it by him but I've spoken with Mike G and unless I misinterpreted his take on it my understanding is that with the steel ridge beam I no longer need any kind of horizontal bracing across the rafters at any height, the reasons why though I didn't venture into.

Perhaps if Mike reads this he can add some insight otherwise I will ask the structural engineer to clarify to make sure I haven't misunderstood his intentions, but I was very clear in my remit which was to have steelwork built that would enable me to not have any horizontal ties between rafters if at all possible.

Just reading your comments again though, I fail to see how collar ties or any kind of horizontal bracing would protect from what you describe! Surely collar ties or eaves height joists are surely just there to stop the weight of the roof from spreading the walls apart…!? None of that would help or prevent the wind effects on the gable… :eusa-think:

Cheers
Mark
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Hi Mark thank you for the reply but I think I misunderstood you because of the terminology.

1. If you had said "Ceiling Joist or Collars" I would have understood, to my knowledge, these elements of the roof are not commonly refereed to as Bracing :eusa-naughty:

It's just the terminology that threw me Mark :D

Bob has probably done a good job of describing what I thought you were referring to :text-bravo:

That's cleared that up, at least for me.

Many thank's for the reply Mark

Mark :lol:
 
Seems this has been answered, but just for the sake of clarity..

There will need to be some diagonal bracing of some description (whether timber....usually 4x1....or in the steel framing) to prevent racking of the roof and structural failure of the gable under wind load. However, this can also be achieved by sheathing the rafters with ply/ OSB, which you might be doing for a ceiling anyway. Don't forget that the gable will need tying with straps across 3 rafters, with some timber blocking between the rafters at those locations.

The steel ridge beam is designed to stop the ridge sagging, which is the only way that a roof can spread and push the walls apart. The two typical ways of stopping walls being pushed over by spreading rooves is to have something across the lower part of the trusses holding everything together, (a tie) or by having a structural ridge beam. The ridge beam is a type of purlin, and purlins in other locations also do the same job, but aren't common these days.
 
Hi Jimmy

Thanks, and you literally answered as I started writing this. The steelwork has gone up today and the lads are now working on the rafters and finishing the brickwork around the slope and between rafters. I'll get a pic up later to show progress but they reckon they will have the roof up, membraned and battened and all brickwork completed by the end of Saturday, along with boarding the window openings and putting on a temp OSB door to start drying everything out inside.

I will get the slates ordered next week and depending when he can start me off I might just have a crack at doing all that myself…

Cheers
Mark

PS One question I have, Mike, earlier you said "Don't forget that the gable will need tying with straps across 3 rafters, with some timber blocking between the rafters at those locations.". I've done a bit of googling but can't work out what exactly this would look like, can you help…?
 
Afternoon Mark

I've got a few PDF's about roofing from Coventry College.

PM me an adress and I'll send them over if you would like them.

Cheers

Dave
 
Crikey Mark - darn good going chap! 8-)

Are you feeding your blokes real thick cut sliced kosha (on my life already) bacon sarnies with loads of HP in toasted baguettes with a side dish of smoked salmon bagels or something? :shock:

All of that done by tomorrow evening - nice. 8-)

Looking absolutely marvellous!

:text-bravo:
 
Cheers Dave will PM you. [emoji1360]

Pinch - Polish machines! [emoji23] see pics below. Main roof will be almost raftered before they leave today leaving small roof, membrane, battening and some brickwork for tomorrow. Easy at their workrate.

Malc - your wish is my command...

This morning:




Around 11:30:



Around 16:30:



Cheers
Mark
 
9fingers":ioejwctm said:
Those two steel rafters look seriously enormous 250/300 mm deep??

Are you hanging a hoist off them or something?

Bob
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They will be typically Structural Engineer over specced I imagine, but they are:

Long ridge = 203x102
Short ridge = 178x102
Apex beam = 203x133

The apex beam has a .25" steel plate welded beneath to take the brickwork on for the wall return. I'll get some pics tomorrow in the light, too dark now, but Jaco still out there doing timbers…

Cheers
Mark
 
Way to go Mark.

Do you get the Travel Channel? Interesting program called Building Alaska where, with the aid of a chain saw, hammer and a bag of nails, bloody great log cabins are often man handled into place by just 3 or 4 guys. The size of the ridge beams beams being manoeuvred by hand is quite amazing.
 
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