V & A coffee table Finished!

[AndyP]

Sunday morning and I found an hour in the workshop.

I do not use the sliding carriage on my Kity very often but after a couple of cuts my rectangular table top is nearly square. Only 0.5mm, or a smidgen, out on the diagonals. That’ll do me



And managed to cut to size the rails and stretcher and with the help of the pine legs had a view of how it will look upside down.



Next up will be to cut the leg ends on the Hegner.

 

[Phil]

Next up will be to cut the leg ends on the Hegner.

Can you do a vid? What number blade will you use?
Interested in seeing how it handles the Oak.

 

[Malc2098]

Nice!

I wish I had my CNC fully operational. We could shape the ends from the drawing.

 

[AndyP]

Next up will be to cut the leg ends on the Hegner.

Can you do a vid? What number blade will you use?
Interested in seeing how it handles the Oak.

Phil, I'll see what I can do. Vid might be difficult. As for the blade I dunno yet. Trial and error to start with.

 

[AndyP]

Nice!

I wish I had my CNC fully operational. We could shape the ends from the drawing.

Malc, there's time Would be great to see those shapes appear on a CNC machine but alas the postage of all that wood to and fro would be prohibitive.
I do wonder if a scaled down version of that pattern would make a nice trivet :eusa-think:

 

[Phil]

Next up will be to cut the leg ends on the Hegner.

Can you do a vid? What number blade will you use?
Interested in seeing how it handles the Oak.

Phil, I'll see what I can do. Vid might be difficult. As for the blade I dunno yet. Trial and error to start with.

I tried to cut some extremely hard and heavy (unknown) wood the other day using a #12 on the slow speed.
These was lots of smoke, burning smell and then the blade jammed and broke.

 

[Malc2098]

Nice!

I wish I had my CNC fully operational. We could shape the ends from the drawing.

Malc, there's time Would be great to see those shapes appear on a CNC machine but alas the postage of all that wood to and fro would be prohibitive.
I do wonder if a scaled down version of that pattern would make a nice trivet :eusa-think:

When I can get round to making it work, I might give that a try and put a couple in the post.

 

[AndyP]

Malc, I am sure you have higher priorities for getting your CNC up and running. I was thinking that I could, in theory, make them on the scroll saw.
Not that I can help but what is holding up progress on the CnC?

 

[Malc2098]

Malc, I am sure you have higher priorities for getting your CNC up and running. I was thinking that I could, in theory, make them on the scroll saw.
Not that I can help but what is holding up progress on the CnC?

I'm just about to solder the last plug and socket for the control box wiring. I've done 32 pairs of joints so far.

I shall nor be winning any prizes for my soldering!

 

[AndyP]

Phil, I’ve no idea what number my blades are. There are the type where the teeth in the lower inch are reversed to lessen tear out. I'm sorry my usual filing system has let me down and I cannot even find out where I bought them, nor how long ago. At least 15+ years. The only reference I’ve got is on the packet shown.



Not enough hands for a video either.
Here is a close up of the first cut out. No burning.



The first completed leg



And I couldn’t resist resting the top on top of both oak legs.


The burning in that last image is from the band saw not the Hegner.

 

[RogerS]

bscene-drinkingbuddies: bscene-drinkingcheers:

I think that calls for a decent bottle of vino.

 

[Malc2098]

Nice.

 

[AndyP]

My plan calls for through dowels (walnut) to join the rails and the stretcher to the legs. Visible walnut dowels were used to great effect by Paul (Pinch) when he made the settle and I hope to replicate the same detail. Stupidly expensive to obtain here so I had some delivered to the UK prior to our aborted trip there over easter.

My brother will have to cut a few to length for me and post in a letter thereby, I hope, avoiding and duties etc.

 

[Phil]

Phil, I’ve no idea what number my blades are. There are the type where the teeth in the lower inch are reversed to lessen tear out. I'm sorry my usual filing system has let me down and I cannot even find out where I bought them, nor how long ago. At least 15+ years. The only reference I’ve got is on the packet shown.
View attachment 3

Andy, that is looking really good

The blade looks like a reverse tooth.
For hardwood up to 25mm a number 7, I generally use a #12

What also makes a difference is the table insert, zero clearance.

Impressive cutting with no burn marks. How long did it take?

I ordered a whole lot of blades from Ax, which are somewhere between UK and SA, which included reverse tooth and modified geometry.

 

[AndyP]

bscene-drinkingbuddies: bscene-drinkingcheers:

I think that calls for a decent bottle of vino.

Not quite, Shared a bottle of Old Peculier.

 

[AndyP]

Thanks Phil,
How long? The two big outside cuts were done on the bandsaw. The rest probably took about 30 mins each leg. I broke 2 blades BTW. The 2nd one is much cleaner than the first. I really should have done some practice cuts on some offcuts before the real thing. I do scroll work so rarely these days it takes a while to get the feel back.

 

[AJB Temple]

Looking good.

I continue to wonder how you will stop the ends of the feet and similar ends of the top support, from breaking off through the weak end grain. Surely these areas are very vulnerable?

 

[TrimTheKing]

Looking good.

I continue to wonder how you will stop the ends of the feet and similar ends of the top support, from breaking off through the weak end grain. Surely these areas are very vulnerable?

They've got walnut feet haven't they, with the grain running perpendicular?

 

[AndyP]

Indeed Mark, the feet have strips of walnut. I could do the same at the top of the V but as this will be hidden under the table top I am less concerned.

I am not all convinced that this will come out looking as good as I intended but the great thing about this hobby of ours is the secondary use that all project failures have ………kindling.

 

[AndyP]

I might be getting ahead of my self here but my thoughts have turned to how to attach the top to the rails.
Buttons are the obvious answer and being as I have one, for a few more weeks at least, I was thinking I could make the grooves in the rails with the biscuit jointer. Far more controller in my hands than a router.

Good idea or not?

 

[RogerM]

I could make the grooves in the rails with the biscuit jointer. Far more controller in my hands than a router.

Good idea or not?

Sounds like a good idea to me. This is my first visit to this thread after a long layoff, and this project is looking great Andy.

 

[AndyP]

Thanks Roger,
I have just about finished sanding the leg ends. Rails and stretcher cut to size. I had a go at carving some relief into the letters but it looked awful so I have scrapped that idea.

 

[AndyP]

Dry loose fit of the legs, stretcher and rails. 5mm dowels used in 6mm holes just to see what it looks like. Coming together more or less as planned. Probably not as neat and tidy as I would have hoped. Perhaps from a distance it wont look so bad.



Question,
If I stain this to match an existing small table I will use a medium oak spirit stain. Should I stain before gluing or after?

 

[Mike G]

I think if I were staining something as complex as this, with all those nooks and crannies, I'd do it beforehand, but also apply a coat of finish. That way, your glue will wipe off cleanly without leaving a trace.

 

[Malc2098]

Coming along really nicely.

 

[Phil]

I think if I were staining something as complex as this, with all those nooks and crannies, I'd do it beforehand, but also apply a coat of finish. That way, your glue will wipe off cleanly without leaving a trace.

:text-goodpost:

Excellent advice (been there, T-shirt, Red Face)

 

[AndyP]

Applying the stain to all surfaces is straight forward enough. The joints are butt with through dowels. Keeping the varnish off the end grain of the rails and stretcher is easy enough. How to keep it off the face grain of the legs is taxing me somewhat. Or does it matter? There is obviously is very little strength in an end grain to face grain butt joint, the strength comes from the dowels, so having varnish in the way probably wont have much effect.

Finish will be polyurethane varnish. First few coats thinned.

 

[spb]

Put masking tape over the area of face grain, poke holes in it where the dowels need to go, then dry-assemble the joint with the tape in between. Now you can trim off any exposed tape, disassemble the joint, and apply finish.

 

[AndyP]

I have done some dummy runs on some offcuts and the dowels are a very tight fit. I really do not think that they would come apart if I knocked them fully home.

 

[DaveL]

I have done some dummy runs on some offcuts and the dowels are a very tight fit. I really do not think that they would come apart if I knocked them fully home.

Is there room for any glue on the dowels or are you relying on friction?

 

[AndyP]

When I did this before I scratched the dowel across the teeth of a saw to scuff them up a bit and give the glue something to cling to.

 

[AndyT]

Dowels need at least one longitudinal groove, to let glue get past them as they are knocked home.
If there's no escape route for the glue, a dowel can work like a hydraulic ram and make it burst through the surface of the wood. Or just stop you getting the joint together.

 

[Woodbloke]

I have done some dummy runs on some offcuts and the dowels are a very tight fit. I really do not think that they would come apart if I knocked them fully home.

That's happened to me so I usually do a dummy run with looser or old dowels to make sure everything goes together and can be knocked apart again

Dowels need at least one longitudinal groove, to let glue get past them as they are knocked home.
If there's no escape route for the glue, a dowel can work like a hydraulic ram and make it burst through the surface of the wood. Or just stop you getting the joint together.

On a plain dowel the groove is usually done with by putting a tenon saw in the vice and running the dowel along the the teeth, but yep, you must provide an exit for unwanted glue or you're liable to get 'hydraulic lock'. Bad news - Rob

 

[AndyP]

On a plain dowel the groove is usually done with by putting a tenon saw in the vice and running the dowel along the the teeth, but yep, you must provide an exit for unwanted glue or you're liable to get 'hydraulic lock'. Bad news - Rob

Which was what I was trying to explain earlier, not very well.

When I did this before I scratched the dowel across the teeth of a saw to scuff them up a bit and give the glue something to cling to.

 

[Cabinetman]

The other way it was done was with a piece of scrap wood with a hole the same size as the dowel drilled through it, then knock a panel pin in so that it protrudes into the hole, then push the length of downing through.
Hydraulic lock is a strange thing to witness as the glue emerges/bleeds from the surface or more likely through the pores on the end of the piece of wood. Ian

 

[johnward]

An amazing piece of work Andy - certainly above my pay grade.

John

 

[AndyP]

Thank you John, I am still not convinced that I can pull it off to my satisfaction but will soldier on.

Buttons made this morning.



Should I also fix the ends to the top with buttons? Can’t make the slots with the biscuit jointer as there is not room. Would have to use a router I guess.

 

[9fingers]

If you don't use a button at each end, make sure you put one tight into each corner of the frame otherwise in time, the top will slide end to end. DAMHIKT!

Bob

 

[AndyP]

Makes sense Bob, I’ll have to dig out my little Trend router and see if I have a small enough cutter .

 

[9fingers]

Makes sense Bob, I’ll have to dig out my little Trend router and see if I have a small enough cutter .

Nooooo you don’t have to put the all in the side rails but makes sure there are 4 at the end of the side rail. Then use the BJ for all

Bob