Jimmy Mack's 'Shop Build (photos & video)

[9fingers]

I'd have thought your noggins will prevent slumping. maximum vertical spacing looks to be less than a metre(?)
you could always fire a few staples into the top edges of the insulation for belt and braces.
If you have sawn timber that is normally hairy enough to grip it anyway. Regularised timber is a bit more slippy.

If you are putting it into the roof, then I used polythene sheet initially stapled at wall plate level, then inserted a couple of metres of insulation, stapling the polythene as I went to hold in in place. I was working from the inside but if you can work from the outside, staple your polythene all over from the inside first, add the insulation from the outside and then cover with osb or whatever underslating/deck you are using - sorry I can't instantly recall the nature of your roof design as I write this.
The polythene is more a simple cheap retention method but also give belt and braces vapour barrier.

Bob

 

[Rod]

I used Rockwool Insulation Slabs in my shed rebuild both in the walls and ceilings without any issues.
I used strips of membrane to hold it I situ before placing ceiling OSB

Rod

I should add because of impending and frequent bad weather, I waterproofed the outside first then insulated and then placed inner cladding.

 

[Mike G]

Amazing!...After hours of bending my brain and trying to juggle materials to meet U-Values I get through to the architect who essentially says as it's an out-building I don't need to put ANY insulation in!

That is only the case if it is unheated.

Now...A question regarding mineral wool in the walls, will it slump? Can I stop it from slumping. Should I get slabs?

I prefer to use batts in walls for this reason. You can get away with rolls, but it's much the same price, and it's your building, so I would suggest going for cavity batts.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

That is only the case if it is unheated.

Spot on, no flies on you, Mike,

The BCO asked if there was heating ... of course, what with the glorious micro climate of Yorkshire and that I Iike it coooooool - one won't be requiring any heating.


(...I'm running out of points here rapidly :eusa-doh: )

Waiting for my rafters to show, the merchant put them on the wrong fudging wagon!!! (sans HIAB!) Need to get prepared for saturdays Ridgebeam arrival...and daddy-day-care tomorrow...it's all a bit time tight, and... The refreshingly cooling rain doesn't help either

Thanks for the detailed advice on the slumping chaps, I think I'll tack the roof insulation maybe a bit of the strapping with membrane / polythene, however as the pitch is quite low near 20 deg I thing slumping will be minimal if none existent here on the roof.

Thanks, Jim

 

[AndyP]

Hope you have tripod, camera and timer for the ridge beam installation. Or a spare pair of hands to take the photos. Hope it goes well.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

So yesterday was a bit frustrating by the time I'd received the rafters it was 4, then hand balled up the back and it was 5...

Fortunately granny helped out on the child care this afternoon so was able to get the provisional rafters in ready for tomorrow's ridge beam.

Which went like this...


At first, I thought I'd under shot my king post and gone sub 20 degrees on the pitch [emoji15] ...according to my rod I'd marked on the deck. So I mocked it up in situ..

I'm sure there's a better 'pro' way of doing this, I like rods and offering up (ha, that sounds very wrong!) ...but my maths is not the best or should I say I don't like to strain my brain too much...remember... I'm a non academic, dreamer, arty type [GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

I diverse...

Luck had it I'm bang on 20...

marking my seat and plumb cut in the birds mouth, my speed square isn't quite long enough to mark the seat off the pivot point...

The seat is too shallow and long for my TS55 track saw... so I'll have to cut them individually (x 40) ...unless anyone has any ideas?....Lots of wedges though

Truss rafter clips....like the joist hangers these seemed only available in 38 & 50mm and my rafters are like the joists 44mm...so packing again!

The rafter on the right is up temporary to have a look...it's actually my pattern rafter too. It'll come down so we can insert diagonally, raise, turn and drop the ridge in tomorrow. Plan to get some more bracing in before and a dozen rafters ready to fire up and diagonally brace so there's no racking

Gennie's at the ready...

Cheers, Jim


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[Mike G]

You look good-to-go, Jim.

Just take your time. Stop before each new move and ask what could go wrong, and what will happen if you lose control of the ridge.

Have plenty of one handed clamps to hand, and give yourself a bit of wiggle room at the posts in the gables. You won't necessarily be dead square on when you offer an end in for the first time.

Good luck!

 

[RogerS]

Two Genie's There's posh !!

 

[Crispylettuce]

Good luck - don't take any unnecessary risks, even if it means taking longer!!

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[Dan0741]

Just lost 3 hrs reading end to end, wonderful stuff Jim and it seems I joined you at a critical point! Hope all goes to plan, do everything slowly, and I wish you the very best. You will be sitting in an armchair in 24 hrs time feeling very pleased with yourself.....

 

[kirkpoore1]

If you are concerned about overheating when using machines and dust collection, or even from your skylights, consider putting in a gable fan. It'll blow the heat out of the back of the building. They can be pretty quiet as long as the fan speed isn't too high.

Kirk

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Boom!

[emoji4] [emoji4] [emoji4] [emoji4] [emoji4] [emoji4] [emoji4] [emoji4] [emoji4]

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[Pinch]

Nicely done Jim! Top banana!

I see a few gulps have been had from the bottle - champion. bscene-drinkingcheers:

:text-bravo:

 

[Mike G]

Well done Jim.

That's cheating, of course, to have all those people and so much kit. Please take it down and do it again properly. Thanks.

:lol:

 

[RogerS]

Its easy with a Genie!! Glad my suggestion bore fruit

 

[Crispylettuce]

Looks great!

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[AndyP]

Easy Peasy! Love the shot of the ridge beam on the forklift taking up the whole road

 

[Rod]

Nice work - that's some beastie - in comparison the "piers" don't look man enough!
Well done.

Rod

 

[Wizard9999]

Have not been checking in for a bit as only have access by phone and the screen is just too damn small. Superb progress in the short time since I last looked and holy shït that is a proper size ridge beam!

Terry.

 

[kirkpoore1]

Well done Jim.

That's cheating, of course, to have all those people and so much kit. Please take it down and do it again properly. Thanks.

:lol:

Everything's easy with the right tool.*



Kirk
*I think the glulam beams in my shop were put up with a crane, but I wasn't there to see it.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Easy peasey...you guys... ...no one got hurt so well worth spending on the double Genie hire ...not a great idea having two guys called 'Jim' doing the winding tho, It certainly gave my brother who was directing a headache

Hoiked the rafters up solo over two afternoons. Openings for two roof lights. Need to work out my tile gauge to figure the position of the windows. Pair of rafters to go in at the gable ends just out from the cladding which is still another 150 mm 'ish to add (fireboard, battern, counter battern for vert cladding, air gap and cladding), plenty of blocking, roof light trimmed rafters and gable ends to fill in.

My arms ache....
I bumped my noggin on a rafter (twice)...
my phone died...'black screen of death'
...so I pinched management's camera for some end of play wide angle shots and... had another beer, it's bank holiday after all

Cheers, Jim

 

[Rod]

Looking good - glad it went well

Rod

 

[Halo Jones]

It looks like a temple at the bottom of the garden! Very cool

 

[Jimmy Mack]

It looks like a temple at the bottom of the garden! Very cool

Funny you should say...the neighbour asked if I was actually building a church and perhaps I'll be swinging a bell from the end of the ridge beam? :lol:

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Whilst rain and a mighty wind (stuck up some extra triangulation bracing to rafters!)...stops play... I'm wondering on what a sensible workflow might be from after the completion of the framing. My BCO's next visit I hear (via the architect) is to see my framing, and insulation and most definitely the Fireboard Case before I cover it up on the inside.

So my question for you chaps is... what do you think of the following process?

• OSB to under side of roof
• Wiring for lighting (roof, front door, switch...CAT 6 Alarm, CCTV, etc)
• Roof insulation
• Roof membrane
• Tile batts

Then onto the walls...

• Gyp Fireboard Case F to external walls.
• Building wrap
• Batts for cladding
• Windows & Doors
• Cladding trim
• Cladding
• Internal Insulation

***BUILDING INSPECTION***

• Structural Ply internal sheathing
• Roof lights/ windows
• Tile roof (I have these...1.25 metric ton of them!)
• Roof trim - Soffits, Facia, barge boards
• Guttering
• Church bell for end of ridge beam
• Plasterboard interior
• Decorate
• Surface mount sockets
• Floor up
• Ducting
• Insulate



My main concerns ...

• Leaving the Sheathing Ply so late, what with it being a structural element.
• Can I really leave the roof un-tiled with just the membrane for so long?

Thoughts, pointers very much appreciated.

Cheers Jim

 

[Mike G]

You can leave the sheathing ply as long as you like, so long as you have some temporary diagonal braces nailed across studs on all 4 sides.

My roof is still untiled (just membrane). You can certainly safely leave it some months.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

You can leave the sheathing ply as long as you like, so long as you have some temporary diagonal braces nailed across studs on all 4 sides.

My roof is still untiled (just membrane). You can certainly safely leave it some months.

Thanks Mike.

I was watching this Larry Haun video last night...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFDoweufkOk

@ 2m 55s he mentions a Sway Brace

Mike you'll know the answer to this...Do I need a Sway Brace at my ridge to end gable? or has the problem of sway been taken out by all my sheathing


For anyone interested there are lots of Larry Haun timber framing videos on you tube. Well worth a watch and almost as good as 'Dick Proenneke - Alone in the wilderness'


Jim

 

[Mike G]

You're lining your rafters with OSB, if I remember correctly? Then the roof can't rack or sway. The walls can't, because of the sheathing board. If those elements can't move, then neither can the gable, so no, you don't need further bracing.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

You're lining your rafters with OSB, if I remember correctly?

Correct.


Thanks Mike thought I best check to see if it was worth doing whilst I can still get at things

Having a Kit-Kat break from filling in the gable ends...blimey, goes on forever! I think you touched on this in your build. Gable studs in, now for some blocking to the tops of the studs and the rafters at wall plate.

Goes a bit like this...

up down cut, up down cut, up down cut, up down cut, up down cut, up down cut, up down cut, up down cut,up down cut, up down cut... ad infinitum :text-bump: :text-bump: :text-bump:

Jim

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Rafter & Gable blocking ...

That's my framing all done...well except for my final rafters, still undecided on what to do here and the best treatment for the ridge. I think I'd like to have the ridge exposed/ on show as its a glorious lump

[emoji3]

Plus: need to do some thinking on my eaves and facia finishing

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[Jimmy Mack]

I ache!

I'm eating like a horse!

I'm sub 11 stone*...I've not been since my early twenties!

(*perhaps a bonus for all the tight side cladding work planned)


I've been thinking about my front barge board final rafter detail. - Mike you're going like this- I'm leaning towards flushing up to my vertical cladding. This does mean loosing the beam detail but does simply things greatly. (I think)

I've put together a sketch of my proposed design...for forum critique...



A couple of Q's...

Do I need to stagger my spacer for air flow? (insect mesh req)...or... Will the air flow coming up from the eaves be sufficient?

Is there a product that does the job of the spacer? (i.e. airflow, mesh, spacer all-in-one)

Jim

 

[Jimmy Mack]

I am also right in thinking the barge board is raised higher than the rafters (to the backside of the tiles) to conceal the tile batt ends? -Or- is this suppose to be a (cement/ timber) fillet of sorts?

 

[Mike G]

I am also right in thinking the barge board is raised higher than the rafters (to the backside of the tiles) to conceal the tile batt ends? -Or- is this suppose to be a (cement/ timber) fillet of sorts?

Oooh.....you've got decisions to make. Often there is an undercloak (board/ slates/ tiles) supporting a mortar fillet under each tile on the roof. That's more problematic with slate (or fake slate), because they don't grip mortar well. Have a look at some local slate rooves, and see what their detail is. Often, a barge board simply comes hard up to the underside of the overhanging slates, with a silicon bead attempting to seal the join.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

The weather here in Yorkshire is glorious! Hopefully I'll be getting my roof breather membrane on in the next couple of days.

Searching on Google to not much joy (I might be using the wrong terminology).

Is there a material which is UV and weather proof to do the first run (300mm maybe) which hangs into the gutter before I continue with my breather membrane?....or do I rely on the tile overhang to shelter the breather?

Cheers, Jim

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[9fingers]

Jim, Look for "under eaves protector" or "soffit protector". Basically a uv resistant black plastic tray to do just the job you need.

Bob

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Perfect. Thanks Bob [emoji106]

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[Mike G]

Strictly it's called an eaves carrier. Typically people use a broad DPC (300mm+), or cut strips from a better quality felt.

 

[9fingers]

Strictly it's called an eaves carrier. Typically people use a broad DPC (300mm+), or cut strips from a better quality felt.

Does DPC have specified resistance to ultra violent light Mike? The trays I used (for a retro fit where the felt had disintegrated) were about 1.2m long and being rigid enabled me to hold up a row of concrete tiles with one elbow whist sliding the trays into place. Obviously a new build would be a whole lot easier if DPC is up to the job.
I've no intention of building any more roofs at this stage in my life but useful to file away for the future.

Cheers
Bob

 

[Mike G]

It doesn't actually say on them, Bob, but they are accepted by Building Control, so they must have satisfied themselves as to their fitness for the purpose. If in doubt, buy the proprietry eaves carrier (which actually fold rather better down into the gutter).

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Oooh.....you've got decisions to make.

I think I've made a decision, hopefully the right one...Here's my proposal...cladding straight up the gable end, running the tiles over and parking a bargeboard straight up against the cladding and hard up under the tiles.



I keep doubting myself though, a little voice keeps asking... 'Jim, are you going to get caught out with an awkward return down the line? ' :eusa-think: