• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

Mike builds a teardrop (doors, cedar strips, ironmongery)

Bob, @Lons I'm not sure that's correct. If there's no train weight, then it's not plated for towing. Back in the day, I'd have given that a tug and the driver, and owner, would have got a summons if there was a trailer attached. It also occurs to me that the insurance company might not be too happy about it either. So it could render the insurance cover void.

I didn't mean the car wouldn't be plated Malc as they clearly must be so I probably didn't word it right but I do know there were models where the manufacturers decided they wouldn't rate the model suitable for towing, in which case if anything went wrong during warranty period they would very likely invalidate the warranty
In one case if I can remember the model it was because they felt the body to be unsuitable to support the fixings of a towbar. Nothing to stop you towing within the law and recommended towing percentages ideally, if out of warranty or risking it otherwise.
A very good point about the insurance company as if the car hasn't a manuffacturer towing rate they could have a valid excuse.

Since reading Mike's post I looked up the A1 and there semms to be plenty of towbars available and info that it can tow up to 1200kg. Without knowing the age and model version it's not possible to say but on paper there's no reason it couldn't easily handle an unbraked trailer
 
......Since reading Mike's post I looked up the A1 and there semms to be plenty of towbars available and info that it can tow up to 1200kg. Without knowing the age and model version it's not possible to say but on paper there's no reason it couldn't easily handle an unbraked trailer

Ours is a '22 car, and it's got a blank section for GTW. Apparently, older A1s could tow, but newer ones can't. It was tow-bar fitters coming back with "sorry, we've got nothing for a late A1," which alerted me to the problem.
 
Did you buy from an Audi main dealer Mike? If so then Audi UK may well exert suitable pressure if needed to resolve the issue. I hope you can get it sorted quickly and to your satisfaction.

I have an aquaintence / ex golf partner who owns a "we buy your car" type company. He spent his whole life from leaving school in car sales with a main dealer and I wouldn't trust him to tell me the time. He'd sell his granny if the opportunity arose. :rolleyes:
 
This link might clarify, particularly the last paragraph. If a vehicle isn't rated for towing, then it's deemed not safe to tow.

Towing capacity

I would say there would a be an offence under Construction & Use Regulations, but I've been away from it for a long time.
 
Mike, the A3 is a good little car. Swap the A1 into that if viable. We spent a month driving round southern Italy and hired one. It was good fun, nippy enough, comfortable and frugal on the go go juice. We slept in it one night on Sicily watching Mt. Etna erupt and the red hot lava flows. My wife had an A4 as a company car for 3 years and that was a good car too. I like Audi - it's just the UK dealer network that sucks.
 
Did you buy from an Audi main dealer Mike? If so then Audi UK may well exert suitable pressure if needed to resolve the issue......

Yes, we did. We know we're in a strong position, but we can't meet them until next week. I hope it doesn't get messy. It should be a simple case of "sorry, you were mis-sold.....here's your money back".
 
Yes, we did. We know we're in a strong position, but we can't meet them until next week. I hope it doesn't get messy. It should be a simple case of "sorry, you were mis-sold.....here's your money back".

In that case it will be an "approved used" car and Audi holds great store by that reputation, if it gets sticky just say you'll take it up direct with Audi UK which they certainly would try to avoid. Hopefully they'll just accept the error and give in gracefully.

Just in case, the Audi UK MD is Jose Miguel Aparicio email address.
 
In that case it will be an "approved used" car and Audi holds great store by that reputation, if it gets sticky just say you'll take it up direct with Audi UK which they certainly would try to avoid. Hopefully they'll just accept the error and give in gracefully.

Just in case, the Audi UK MD is Jose Miguel Aparicio email address.
Thanks Bob. I'll keep that up my sleeve in case.
 
The next task was to tackle the detail around the edge of the hatch which takes the seals. This is a critical part in keeping the inside of the teardrop dry, and its something I've worried about a bit over the last few months. The pieces are "wings" off the side of the hatch.........all will become clear.

I started by taking a pattern:

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Where would this project be without hot-melt glue?!

I transfered the marks to my pattern piece, tapped in some nails, and then sprung a batten around the nails to get a fair curve:

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The bottom edge is where the sels go, and so I had to allow for the thickness of a compressed seal. I measured a few in the house, and [planed a batten to the same thickness. For the bottom edge, therefore, I put the batten on the inside of the nails, to create the requisite gap:

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I could then cut the pattern, and offer it up in place to check:

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In my previous posting I had steam bent the laminates (oak), and they sat fairly true:

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That made the thickened-epoxy glue-up very straightforward:

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Obviously that all took place over a day or two. I also dealt with this detail on the edge of the hatch:

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I could now cut out the shape in the laminate, and do the joinery:

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Then is was a matter of offer-up-and-adjust, until everything was spot on:

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Dry fit:

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The other side was so similar that I could use the same pattern. That pleased me. Both pieces then needed a groove to take the seals (there are a pair of parallel seals either side of the "gutter" in the bog-oak wings of the galley). The only way to achieve that was at the router table, with an improvised guide:

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I detached the galley hatch, and brought it to the workshop (in a howling gale, which gave rise to a Buster Keaton-like progress across the back lawn). I then glued the oak in place............and that's it. It fits or it doesn't. No more adjustment is possible:

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I've a lot more to post, but I'm by myself with the grandkids........
 
Out of clamps:

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I could then clean up the top surface to bring it flush with the galley hatch frame:

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It was awkward retaining it in place, but that's no excuse for taking too much off in a couple of places:

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Next came the bottom edge seal detail. It's the same as the ones I'd just done, but straight. Again, in oak. I thought I'd do a simple joint:

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.....but the awkwardness of the shape and size of the hatch meant that I had to do the mortice on my hands and knees:

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I could then glue it in place. It was out of a somewhat uncooperative piece of oak, so it was a bit of a fight to keep it straight:

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Next came a blind alley. Wasted work. I misunderstood how gas struts worked, and so this reinforcement for one of the fixing points went in entirely the wrong place:

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Ho hum.......

I made a little panel to cover the bottom edge of the ply of the galley. It will also serve as a mount for the hatch catch:

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For the fun of it, I put everything together in the galley:

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See the gapunder the bottom drawer in the photo above? That's where a little folding table is going to live. I decided that instead of just sliding it in to place I would make a little tray/ drawer to hold it:

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IMG_0103.jpgThat meant another drawer front, and I still had the panel in front of the sink to do, so I glued up some sapele:

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.......and after making templates started shaping them:

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I finessed the shape:

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Then routed a round-over to match the other drawers:

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.....and did a rebate around the cut-out on the back:

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I made a rough pine insert for the hole, and stained it as I did for the other drawers:

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It's a backing for the rattan panel:

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A quick splash of the usual 1:1:1 jollop:

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and I also did some bits and pieces on the teardrop with the same stuff, including the door surrounds:

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I know it's of no consequence Mike but it could be interesting to work out your cost of the project including your time and the hidden stock materials like glue, fixings and templates. The biggest factor by far would likely be your time including the planning and drawings.

I did it once a very long time ago and got a hell of a shock. I'm glad I did it as it made me realise how most of us undervalue our time but swore never to do it again. :ROFLMAO:
 
I've got a materials cost, Bob, but it's never crossed my mind to count my time (on this, or anything else I make). I price my hours as free, because it's for my own amusement. Obviously it would be very different if I were doing this for a living. The cost of incidentals such as glue, screws, bolts, and paint are what have surprised my most, and I've taken quite a lot of the wood from my own stocks, so it's unpriced/ unpriceable.
 
I've got a materials cost, Bob, but it's never crossed my mind to count my time (on this, or anything else I make). I price my hours as free, because it's for my own amusement. Obviously it would be very different if I were doing this for a living. The cost of incidentals such as glue, screws, bolts, and paint are what have surprised my most, and I've taken quite a lot of the wood from my own stocks, so it's unpriced/ unpriceable.

Yes I'm the same as I'd think we all are as it's for enjoyment.
I did it out of curiosity when I had my business and even based on minimum wage at the time it was still shocking. What it did for me was confirm that the prices I charged for my time and labour were more than fair and forced me to increase my overheads content to more realistically cover replacement tools and a lot of other hidden stuff as well as the time spent of estimates and site visits of potential work. A focus on priorities really.

It also reinforced the fact that there's no such thing as a "five minute job". if I'd priced up that little shoulder plane I could likely have bought several from Matthew at WH but can't put a value on the satisfaction I got. I've since made a simple oak box for that as my wife suggested one of the kids might just keep it when I've departed this world. I'm not quite ready to do that yet. :rolleyes:
 
Yes I'm the same as I'd think we all are as it's for enjoyment.
I did it out of curiosity when I had my business and even based on minimum wage at the time it was still shocking. What it did for me was confirm that the prices I charged for my time and labour were more than fair and forced me to increase my overheads content to more realistically cover replacement tools and a lot of other hidden stuff as well as the time spent of estimates and site visits of potential work. A focus on priorities really.

It also reinforced the fact that there's no such thing as a "five minute job". if I'd priced up that little shoulder plane I could likely have bought several from Matthew at WH but can't put a value on the satisfaction I got. I've since made a simple oak box for that as my wife suggested one of the kids might just keep it when I've departed this world. I'm not quite ready to do that yet. :rolleyes:
Absolutely correct, and most bits of work are so time consuming that they are unsalable. But as Mike says it’s all for himself and done for fun and the enjoyment of doing it which I can definitely agree on.
But Mike again you have made me feel more than a bit useless, I’ve never come across anyone get as much done in so little time. It’s marvellous what you’re creating there. Be interesting to see the catches that hold the hatch closed.
Ian
 
But Mike again you have made me feel more than a bit useless, I’ve never come across anyone get as much done in so little time.

I'm trying to retire, which is a phased process with an architect (I just don't take on any new work, but the current and past jobs will take 3, 4 or 5 years to get rid of completely), so I've more time to put into woodwork. I can generally find time to do something every day, even if only for an hour.
It’s marvellous what you’re creating there. Be interesting to see the catches that hold the hatch closed.
Ian

Thank you. The catch...........think of an up-and-over garage door, with a T handle in the middle on the outside, and a pair of rods going out sideways on the inside. Well, it's a minor variation on that.
 
You've built it strong enough to carry a lightweight boat on the roof, plenty of time to make that. ;)
 
You've built it strong enough to carry a lightweight boat on the roof, plenty of time to make that. ;)
There's a very practical combination of a folding bike and an inflatable canoe - no woodwork needed but the bike will carry the boat to any interesting backwater you want to explore and the bike folds up small enough to fit in the boat... Just sayin'...
 
There's a very practical combination of a folding bike and an inflatable canoe - no woodwork needed but the bike will carry the boat to any interesting backwater you want to explore and the bike folds up small enough to fit in the boat... Just sayin'...
We're actively looking around at folding/ inflatable canoes at the moment. And there will be a bike rack on the tongue (front frame). So yes, we're thinking along the same lines.
 
Might be worth trying a few if you can Mike. We did an Amazon trip a few years ago, and there was a fair bit of on water stuff. I truly hated the short sit upon Kayaks that they used on one section. Just felt very unstable to me. Most of the time we were supplied with longer ones that you sat in rather than on. By far the most comfortable though were the folding canoes by ALLY. These packed down into a biggish rucksack, complete with spray cover. They felt much the safest in fast or deep water and were very light, whether single or double seat. Handled well and were easy and quick to repair. Used a lot for expeditions we were told. The guides could assemble one in 20 minutes. Took us twice that but gets better with practice.
 
I learnt about the bike/boat combo in Alys Fowler's splendid book "Hidden Nature". She used something from
https://alpackaraft.com
and found something that was light enough to carry on the bike but sturdy enough to carry the bike and herself along the least navigable edges of the canal system round Birmingham.

That was about ten years ago, I expect the choice is wider now.
 
I’ve been re-watching Backshall in his Expedition TV series. My favourites are the jungle/river trips. Well worth a watch if you haven’t already seen. Think it’s on iPlayer or UKTV again. He’s not very comfortable in whitewater, but good on him for risking his life to give it a go for our viewing pleasure.
 
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I'm trying to retire, which is a phased process with an architect (I just don't take on any new work, but the current and past jobs will take 3, 4 or 5 years to get rid of completely), so I've more time to put into woodwork. I can generally find time to do something every day, even if only for an hour.


Thank you. The catch...........think of an up-and-over garage door, with a T handle in the middle on the outside, and a pair of rods going out sideways on the inside. Well, it's a minor variation on that.
Couldn’t sleep and your little wonder was going through my mind. Knowing you a little Mike I’m sure you’ve thought it all through and you will have designed out any problems, but here’s my Tuppenceworth.
The potential weak point of this design of van is the rear hatch imo.
You’ve solved the main rigidity problem by having a bulkhead close to where the hatch hinges are, that will stop the main box flexing. The effect of any flexing would be noticed where the bottom end of the hatch touches, as the van bounces along the potholes it would move side to side in relation to the van frame.
The other problem is water ingress, 1, through the side shuts where you’ve added the bog oak strip, and 2, the hinge edge, the hinge is the easy one as any P strip or similar will compress as the door closes. The sides aren’t so easy, you’ve already got most of the bases covered as the hatch fits so well and is built not to deform, and you’ve got a drip run in the bog oak plus a seal between the two, but I’m thinking if you could have a cam action type closer at the bottom it would cinch the lid down to compress the seal a bit more?
I may be jumping at shadows and it will all work wonderfully as you’ve got it, but I do think maybe something is needed that will cinch it down a bit tighter.
I was looking at the cam action catches on the bonnet of our Jeep wrangler which work in this way.
Or the rubber loop for the cable on my shop vac, or maybe there’s a boat fitting that would be ideal?
Ian
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Great post Ian, and a good summary of the water-tightness issues around the hatch.

I'm aware of those cam latches, and will add them afterwards if I need to. As they're a bit ugly, I'm hoping they won't be necessary. The one thing you didn't get quite right is that the bottom edge of the galley hatch doesn't need to be pulled down, but in. The catch system I am planning to buy this evening is this one:

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The diagonal plate extending up from the pivot of the left hand rod is the third locking/ latching point. It slots into a slot which will be in the middle of the floor just back from the edge. Both this slot, and the holes to accept the ends of the rods, will be sloped/ tapered, to pull the door in tight against the seals as they're slid home. So, the two bottom corners of the hatch are pulled in tight, and so is the middle of the bottom edge.

The other slight variation from your summary is that the hinge will be waterproof. It's called a snail hinge, or a catering hinge, and it runs the whole length of the top edge of the hatch. The reason a simply seal wouldn't work is that it would be fine whilst the hatch was closed, but any water sitting on it would run inside when the hatch was opened. Also, the hatch opens up past the horizontal, so the hinge location is in effect at the bottom of a valley......thus the junction has to be watertight even when the hatch is open as water will be running down onto that edge from both directions.
 
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Oh, and an unamusing aside. You can see an Audi A1 in the background of the second last photo. We bought it 3 or 4 weeks ago having been assured twice (once in writing) by the Audi dealership that they could tow 750kg unbraked, and substantially more braked. It turns out that it isn't rated for towing at all. I couldn't tow a wheelbarrow with it, let alone a teardrop. So, the bloody thing has to go back. We're ........erm.......discussing..... details of that return at the moment. I hope we don't end up needing the services of a solicitor.
For those following the Audi saga, we met with the manager at the dealership, and he offered us either trade-in at the price we paid, or our money back (at the price we paid). Immediately. No quibble. We very much appreciated them accepting our view and reacting properly. In the end, because we couldn't find an A3 which was anywhere near our requirements, and because there were still questionmarks over what an A3 or even a Q2 could tow, we decided on another course of action. We're keeping ther A1 and will replace our other car (a Galaxy), with another 7 seater, which we'll use for towing the teardrop. The downside is that the scuzzy nature of the old Galaxy meant I didn't have to be precious when collecting wood, or sand, or hay, and the replacement will necessarily be smarter.
 
I got a few coats of my wiping varnish mix on the false drawer front, the table drawer front (and bog oak handle), and various other bits 'n bobs. I fitted the dummy drawer front in front of the sink using spring catches:

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The colour mis-match looks awful in the photos, but I think it's the flash. It's OK in real life.

I designed a folding piece of additional worktop, but then found my space was too narrow to allow me to use the design and materials I had in mind. So, I had to make up my own panels, which were much thinner (only 18mm). I made some edge strips on the router table:

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Ripped up some 6mm ply (mistake!):

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Then glued the strips in to make hollow core panels:

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Next came my favourite job: mitre-ing. I can do it pretty well, but I've spent a lifetime hating the job:

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These were pushed in to the edge of all the panels, glued & clamped, and then cleaned up when the glue was dry:

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This doesn't need to be pretty, because it is all going to be laminated all round with Formica (or similar). The edging is to give me something solid to screw hinges into. Now, the mistake. I should have made this of 3mm ply, not 6. It's heavier than I'd like, but plenty stiff/ strong enough, so I think 3mm would have been fine. The other mistake was regarding a line of hinges which won't be at an edge. It would have been a doddle to insert a strip of solid wood underneath their location, but I didn't think of that until the middle of the following night. I'll have to drill some dowels in.

Right...a big moment has arrived. Time to start the cedar strip cladding!!!

The bottom edge of the cladding is going to be covered by a bog oak cover board. This will leave the bottom edge of the cladding sandwiched, but exposed underneath. I decided to use oak here, where it's hidden, for extra longevity. Lot's of spray will get thrown up onto the under-edges opf the trailer, so I don't want any end grain exposed, and oak is bomb-proof. I cut and planed some suitable bits, popped a wheel off, and laid out the first piece. It is critical that this is straight, because it sets the line for everything above, so I faffed about on my hands and knees for a few minutes, with a long straight-edge of aluminium:

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The oak wraps around the front of the teardrop too:

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The other side is exactly the same.

I could then start with the strips. The plan is to have some ash at the bottom of the sides, to provide a contrast to the dark cedar. However, I knew I had loads of cedar, and might be a bit short of ash, so the first strip I put in was cedar, knowing it would be invisible, covered by the bog oak cover board. Turns out I had prepared plenty of ash, but had hidden part of the stash under something else, so I didn't repoeat this on the other side.

So, the first strips went on, glued all along to each other, to the frame, and to the insulation. Disposable gloves on, because there's PU glue everywhere!

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The next mistake I made was forgetting that the detail around the door would be exposed. The ends are covered by bog oak, so the joints don'ty have to be perfect, but around the door, there is no covering. I did one of the strips a bit crudely, but again, didn't realise my error until later that night.

You might remember months ago I made a router jig and took random areas out of some of the ash strips. Well, here's why:

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Instead of having the ash and the decdar meet in a defined contrasting strip, I thought I would gradually blend the two together over a few course. You'll see what I'm getting at in a minute. In the meantime, I ran out of spring clamps, so made some quickly:

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Cutting those little bits of thin WR cedar in was slow and tedious. By the time I had got to the 6th or 7th strip, the first were dry enough to clean up:

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The following day I could clean the rest up and get them glued and pinned onto the teardrop:

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That's as high up as I can get on that side, because the next bit of decoration starts there. For details on that you'll have to stay tuned.....but for a hint, I am quite a fan of Pink Floyd.
 
I'd say brick wall effect but you have that covered so I'll take a punt at MOON and stars with a bog oak meteorite.... :unsure:

Cheers, Andy
 
Can’t solve the Pink Floyd, but the side you’ve started— which isn’t at all how I imagined you would make it look, and it makes me think you’ve been thinking about this for quite a while— anyway it reminds me of a Pixilated whatever, and with the small size of the van, could I suggest a name? The Pixie?
Please ignore.
 
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