Wizard9999
Old Oak
kirkpoore1":3dur21q5 said:
Feather Edge I believe Kirk.
-
Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!
Mike's Workshop Build (Extension & slates)
- Thread starter Mike G
- Start date
Feather Edge I believe Kirk.
Wizard9999
Old Oak
"The Barn Paint I am using is not only water-soluble when wet, but it also paints any building material you can think of"
Mike
Sure you mentioned earlier what paint you are using, but can't ind it in the thread anywhere, can you remind me please?
Thanks,
Terry.
Mike
Sure you mentioned earlier what paint you are using, but can't ind it in the thread anywhere, can you remind me please?
Thanks,
Terry.
Feather Edge
Cheers
Mark
Cheers
Mark
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2014
- Messages
- 10,414
- Reaction score
- 164
Wizard9999":3fnltbhg said:
Terry, the inbuilt search engine in the forum is very powerful. In this case hit Advanced Search top right of any page with the graphic on it.
enter Paint, author: Mike G and board: projects and WIP
hit search and you get straight there
hth
Bob
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Wizard9999":1ge973qq said:
http://bedec.co.uk/BARN PAINT LEAFLET.pdf
Bedec Barn Paint, Country Cream
kirkpoore1
Old Oak
TrimTheKing":2q0bf65a said:
Ah, I see. I looked it up, and it seems to be mostly used as a term for a type of fence, but those don't seem to be overlapped since they run vertically and don't need to shed water.
Kirk
Wizard9999
Old Oak
9fingers":sby9qjfp said:
Thanks Bob, great tip, will use in future.
Terry.
Wizard9999
Old Oak
Mike G":2swqhojm said:
Thanks Mike, looks good stuff. My plan is to use blocks, not bricks for my plinth - cost winning over beauty given it is tucked away, plus trying to get exposed walls and buried retaining walls to same height - so having something I can paint both blocks and boards with at the same time will make life easier for me rather than a pain requiring me to dress my building in a rubber skirt.
Terry.
Both my workshop and shed are painted in Bedec barn paint. Black colour as thats much more traditional here in Surrey. Ive not painted anything other than wood with it but I'm very happy with the results. Feather edge was painted prior to putting up so if it shrinks you don't end up with unpainted stripes. I recommend it. Only problem is I move next week and though there is a garage, I need to decide what to do about a workshop. Going to miss my workshop
Mark
Mark
chataigner
Old Oak
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2014
- Messages
- 1,127
- Reaction score
- 55
Robert":3gszkyw9 said:Mike G":3gszkyw9 said:I've thought sometimes that I was only talking to myself!
This is one of those threads you check back to see what has been happening but it is actually quite hard to comment back something constructive. Doesn't mean no one is interested though
Alans (Hudson carpentry) factory workshop thread is another that comes to mind - interesting to view but hard to add comment.
Please keep going
:text-+1: Absolutely fascinating and very informative, but like Robert I hesitated to comment when I had nothing useful to add. Been following it closely.
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Today was the day I was going to board the outside of the workshop, at least up to plate level. Things don't always work out as planned...........
It started OK, I thought. Here is the set up, with scaffolding as temporary benches:
I got the first few boards on. Note the crucifixes for spacing the boards.
Make them accurately, and swap them from one end of the boards to the other every 4 or 5 rows, checking the bottom edge of boards with a spirit level every few rows (more often for short boards). Anyway, early progress:
Cut a few boards, then paint the ends:
You probably wouldn't find a builder doing this, but the ends of the boards are the most vulnerable for rot.
Grandmother and egg-sucking time..........but it is worth re-iterating. One nail per board per counterbatten. That nail should be about 30/ 35mm up from the bottom (assuming a 25mm board overlap), so that the top board holds the top edge of the lower board, but still allows it to expand and contract with the seasons without splitting. I have seen boards nailed top and bottom, and I have seen them nailed too close to the bottom edge so that the nail goes through both boards. Both are big mistakes. Here is how it should be:
The work is at the bottom and top with F/E boards. Here is a the board cut around the exposed rafter feet:
And then I noticed this:
COCK UP!!
A stupid, stupid, builder-knows-better-than-architect cock up. There is no excuse. I drew it properly, but when setting out the jig for the wedges I just thought I would like a gentle belling out to the bottom of the boards, so stretched the wedge upwards. Now, the inevitable result: the bottom board is at less of an angle than the boards above it, illustrated here by pinning a couple of bits of scrap to the wall:
I thought for about 10 seconds about keeping it, and hoping no-one noticed. Then I thanked my lucky stars that I had screwed the bottom boards and the wedges into place, rather than nailing them. I went around the whole building, unscrewing everything:
I collected all the wedges and all of the screws. I unpicked all the staples holding the insect mesh in place (because that was connected to the wedges). Then I worked out the proper shape for the wedges, and made all 50 again. After making 1, though, I gave it a try:
Looks much better. Funnily enough, the wedge is almost exactly the same as what I drew. I don't tolerate builders changing my details on site: why the hell did I allow myself to do it? Idiot.
New wedges in place, insect mesh re-stapled:
So, back to putting boards on the wall, 2-1/2 hours after I got to the same stage previously:
I'm glad I fixed it, though. This looks so much better, and I would have noticed those 2 boards every time I went to the shed forever more, if I hadn't fixed them:
This next photo illustrates a solution to a problem which doesn't show up on a drawing. The insulation was bulging behind the paper, pushing it out so far that it actually touched the back of the F/F boards. I simply pushed an off-cut down the gap, to re-form the required cavity:
This is as far as I got today:
The external corner detail, as requested by Mark. Viewed from the left:
Viewed from the middle:
Viewed from the right:
I see I missed bit with my mist coat.
External and internal corners together in the same shot:
Here is a close-up of the bottom. I'll have to put something in the gap under the corner piece to keep insects out of where I cut it over the arris/ DPC.
So, lesson learnt: architects know best. Don't make stuff up on site, it always goes wrong. Must do better tomorrow!!
It started OK, I thought. Here is the set up, with scaffolding as temporary benches:
I got the first few boards on. Note the crucifixes for spacing the boards.
Make them accurately, and swap them from one end of the boards to the other every 4 or 5 rows, checking the bottom edge of boards with a spirit level every few rows (more often for short boards). Anyway, early progress:
Cut a few boards, then paint the ends:
You probably wouldn't find a builder doing this, but the ends of the boards are the most vulnerable for rot.
Grandmother and egg-sucking time..........but it is worth re-iterating. One nail per board per counterbatten. That nail should be about 30/ 35mm up from the bottom (assuming a 25mm board overlap), so that the top board holds the top edge of the lower board, but still allows it to expand and contract with the seasons without splitting. I have seen boards nailed top and bottom, and I have seen them nailed too close to the bottom edge so that the nail goes through both boards. Both are big mistakes. Here is how it should be:
The work is at the bottom and top with F/E boards. Here is a the board cut around the exposed rafter feet:
And then I noticed this:
COCK UP!!
A stupid, stupid, builder-knows-better-than-architect cock up. There is no excuse. I drew it properly, but when setting out the jig for the wedges I just thought I would like a gentle belling out to the bottom of the boards, so stretched the wedge upwards. Now, the inevitable result: the bottom board is at less of an angle than the boards above it, illustrated here by pinning a couple of bits of scrap to the wall:
I thought for about 10 seconds about keeping it, and hoping no-one noticed. Then I thanked my lucky stars that I had screwed the bottom boards and the wedges into place, rather than nailing them. I went around the whole building, unscrewing everything:
I collected all the wedges and all of the screws. I unpicked all the staples holding the insect mesh in place (because that was connected to the wedges). Then I worked out the proper shape for the wedges, and made all 50 again. After making 1, though, I gave it a try:
Looks much better. Funnily enough, the wedge is almost exactly the same as what I drew. I don't tolerate builders changing my details on site: why the hell did I allow myself to do it? Idiot.
New wedges in place, insect mesh re-stapled:
So, back to putting boards on the wall, 2-1/2 hours after I got to the same stage previously:
I'm glad I fixed it, though. This looks so much better, and I would have noticed those 2 boards every time I went to the shed forever more, if I hadn't fixed them:
This next photo illustrates a solution to a problem which doesn't show up on a drawing. The insulation was bulging behind the paper, pushing it out so far that it actually touched the back of the F/F boards. I simply pushed an off-cut down the gap, to re-form the required cavity:
This is as far as I got today:
The external corner detail, as requested by Mark. Viewed from the left:
Viewed from the middle:
Viewed from the right:
I see I missed bit with my mist coat.
External and internal corners together in the same shot:
Here is a close-up of the bottom. I'll have to put something in the gap under the corner piece to keep insects out of where I cut it over the arris/ DPC.
So, lesson learnt: architects know best. Don't make stuff up on site, it always goes wrong. Must do better tomorrow!!
kirkpoore1
Old Oak
Mike, the whole thing looks really nice. I do really like the cove cut drip edge on the bottom board, even though it will be almost invisible.
Does the bottom board stick out enough to impede the door? It looks like the door might hit it if you open it all the way.
Kirk
Does the bottom board stick out enough to impede the door? It looks like the door might hit it if you open it all the way.
Kirk
Rod
Old Oak
Perhaps I've missed it, but did you paint both sides of the boards before installing them?
Rod
Rod
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Rod":v7yu2g49 said:
No I didn't, Rod. The timber is treated. I have painted the two edges and the ends, as well as the face. The paint is microporous ("breathable"), so it shouldn't cause any differential drying of one side compared with the other.
Would you call yourself a perfectionist Mike? 
I think I would have left well alone. The fact that you recovered the situation in just 2.5 hours with all the rejigging to do makes me believe you have an army of helpers
I think I would have left well alone. The fact that you recovered the situation in just 2.5 hours with all the rejigging to do makes me believe you have an army of helpers
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Andyp":3e2zsjva said:...........The fact that you recovered the situation in just 2.5 hours with all the rejigging to do makes me believe you have an army of helpers
Who do you think I am ...........Steve Maskery?
No, it's just me on my tod.
Rod
Old Oak
Thanks Mike
I had planned to to rebuild my shed, create some more space and reorganise my garage workshop this year.
But medical problems have delayed that, to hopefully next spring?
The delay and your build story has been fortunate in that I will incorporate some of your designs and especially the use of Barn Paint.
Many thanks
Rod
I had planned to to rebuild my shed, create some more space and reorganise my garage workshop this year.
But medical problems have delayed that, to hopefully next spring?
The delay and your build story has been fortunate in that I will incorporate some of your designs and especially the use of Barn Paint.
Many thanks
Rod
Wizard9999
Old Oak
Mike
As ever found your recent detailed post was a great read and most informative - like others I very much liked the creation of the drip rail on the bottom board. I have to say I had to flip between the before and after pictures of the bottom board two or three times before I say what you were going on about in terms of the angles, but as you say, once you know something is there that you don't think is right it will smack you in the eye everythimg you see it.
I was mulling this over on the train into work this morning and wondered if there is a different (dare I say it better) way to approach the differential width of the brick / block plinth and the timber wall above. What if, instead of locating the timber frame flush to the inside edge of the inner blockwork skin, the timber frame was located closer to the outside, such that once the counter battens were nailed on the board then sat flush to the outside wall (i.e. in the same position as the bottom of your bottom board now where you are using the additional wedge of timber). Then before putting up the OSB inside you also add a counter batten on the inside of the frame to bring that flush to the inside edge of the blocks, allowing the OSB to run straight down the wall from the timber frame over the blockwork plinth. By doing this the outside boards could be positioned as you have them, but without the need for the wedges and any differential angle at the bottom.
The added benefit of this would also be to increase the depth of the cavity slightly. In your post you also mentioned that the breather paper on the outside was bulging out because of the insulation and that this was closing the gap required between it and the back of the cladding. By increasing the depth of the cavity, this should also lessen this problem.
The only problem I can immediately foresee is that if the insulation is not rigid enough the extra space would allow if to 'slump down' within the cavity.
What am I missing?
Terry.
As ever found your recent detailed post was a great read and most informative - like others I very much liked the creation of the drip rail on the bottom board. I have to say I had to flip between the before and after pictures of the bottom board two or three times before I say what you were going on about in terms of the angles, but as you say, once you know something is there that you don't think is right it will smack you in the eye everythimg you see it.
I was mulling this over on the train into work this morning and wondered if there is a different (dare I say it better) way to approach the differential width of the brick / block plinth and the timber wall above. What if, instead of locating the timber frame flush to the inside edge of the inner blockwork skin, the timber frame was located closer to the outside, such that once the counter battens were nailed on the board then sat flush to the outside wall (i.e. in the same position as the bottom of your bottom board now where you are using the additional wedge of timber). Then before putting up the OSB inside you also add a counter batten on the inside of the frame to bring that flush to the inside edge of the blocks, allowing the OSB to run straight down the wall from the timber frame over the blockwork plinth. By doing this the outside boards could be positioned as you have them, but without the need for the wedges and any differential angle at the bottom.
The added benefit of this would also be to increase the depth of the cavity slightly. In your post you also mentioned that the breather paper on the outside was bulging out because of the insulation and that this was closing the gap required between it and the back of the cladding. By increasing the depth of the cavity, this should also lessen this problem.
The only problem I can immediately foresee is that if the insulation is not rigid enough the extra space would allow if to 'slump down' within the cavity.
What am I missing?
Terry.
Terry as per Mike sketch of a few years back - on Page two of this thread.
viewtopic.php?p=1556#p1556
I was wondering the same thing. Obviously, compared to the earlier sketch, you've added the blocks on the inside but the frame could still sit flush to the outside of the brickwork.
Why the change?
viewtopic.php?p=1556#p1556
I was wondering the same thing. Obviously, compared to the earlier sketch, you've added the blocks on the inside but the frame could still sit flush to the outside of the brickwork.
Why the change?
Wizard9999
Old Oak
Andyp":3a01qdiy said:
Andy
My recollection is that Mike did not like the frame sitting flush as it meant the cladding overhanging the edge of the plinth, but yes, with yes, with the extra width it could sit just far enough back to allow the boards to end up flush.
Of course an even simpler altenrative would be to sit it flush to the inside of the blockworjk and just use bigger counter battens.
Terry.
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Hi Terry.
The whole point of the extra 2 inches of masonry (the inner leaf of blockwork) was to achieve the external junction detail between boards and bricks that I have achieved here. I really hate the typical situation where the boards stick out over the brickwork by an inch or two, although I am guilty of doing that myself in the past. Having gone to all the trouble of getting the relationship between the plinth and the boards correct, I then fouled it up temporarily with a moment of stupidity, but the fixed detail is exactly what I had in mind all along, and looks so much better than the alternative. I'll see if I can post a picture later of the thing I am trying to avoid.
The difficulty of moving the frame to some intermediate position on the plinth is that the strap detail would be really awkward, and you would be doubling the amount of battening out you need to do (it would have to be inside and outside). Don't forget that the external battens are a critical part of the construction. They aren't there to get the boards to the right depth. They are there to create a ventilated void (a cavity, if you like), protecting the frame and the insulation from moisture, both from driven rain that finds a way past the boarding, and from condensation. Along with the plinth, battening out from the frame is what separates this form of permanent structure from the temporary sheds that most people put up with. As I've said many times before, a plinth, and a battened out zone behind the boards, makes the difference between a shed and workshop.
As for the insulation, that is a simple workmanship issue. It is important to cut the insulation to the right size. Too loose and it lets warm air out of the gaps. Too tight and it bulges. I have spotted one other place where it is bulging slightly. It really isn't a big deal, because the loose batten trick is an instant fix, and works beautifully.
Nice thinking though, Terry. It's good to question these things.
Mike
The whole point of the extra 2 inches of masonry (the inner leaf of blockwork) was to achieve the external junction detail between boards and bricks that I have achieved here. I really hate the typical situation where the boards stick out over the brickwork by an inch or two, although I am guilty of doing that myself in the past. Having gone to all the trouble of getting the relationship between the plinth and the boards correct, I then fouled it up temporarily with a moment of stupidity, but the fixed detail is exactly what I had in mind all along, and looks so much better than the alternative. I'll see if I can post a picture later of the thing I am trying to avoid.
The difficulty of moving the frame to some intermediate position on the plinth is that the strap detail would be really awkward, and you would be doubling the amount of battening out you need to do (it would have to be inside and outside). Don't forget that the external battens are a critical part of the construction. They aren't there to get the boards to the right depth. They are there to create a ventilated void (a cavity, if you like), protecting the frame and the insulation from moisture, both from driven rain that finds a way past the boarding, and from condensation. Along with the plinth, battening out from the frame is what separates this form of permanent structure from the temporary sheds that most people put up with. As I've said many times before, a plinth, and a battened out zone behind the boards, makes the difference between a shed and workshop.
As for the insulation, that is a simple workmanship issue. It is important to cut the insulation to the right size. Too loose and it lets warm air out of the gaps. Too tight and it bulges. I have spotted one other place where it is bulging slightly. It really isn't a big deal, because the loose batten trick is an instant fix, and works beautifully.
Nice thinking though, Terry. It's good to question these things.
Mike
DaveL
Old Oak
If you pop over Roger, I have some big croc clips, if you could just attached them for Mike. [emoji770]RogerS":otv7gi7p said:
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Wizard9999":3bnxgdhh said:
I forgot to say this before. There will always be a need for something under the bottom board, be it wedges or a horizontal batten. The reason is that all the boards above it are kicked out by the thickness of the board they overlap below (8 or 10mm, at a guess). Therefore, no boards whatsoever lie flat on the battens, and of course, even if you just want the bottom board to line up with the boards above, it would need to have something under it to take the place of the board which isn't there below it.
I hope I haven't made that sound too opaque!
Wizard9999
Old Oak
Mike G":2opdinh9 said:
No, crystal clear Mike and a good point.
Terry.
stephen.wood125
New Shoots
re: feedback. LOVE this build. So many ideas and tips. Amazing speed of build as well. totally hooked.
Thanks Mike.
Stephen.
:text-bravo:
Thanks Mike.
Stephen.
:text-bravo:
TheTiddles
New Shoots
Andyp":1pw9s440 said:Would you call yourself a perfectionist Mike?
He's not a perfectionist... It's just that others have low standards!
That odd-angle board would have driven me mental too
Aidan
Pinch
Old Oak
You'll never stop those blasted insects Mike - especially the false widow spiders. :x
I'm looking forward to see what comes out of this speedy shop build - excellent stuff and well done!
I'm looking forward to see what comes out of this speedy shop build - excellent stuff and well done!
TheTiddles":1dlrd518 said:Andyp":1dlrd518 said:Would you call yourself a perfectionist Mike?
He's not a perfectionist... It's just that others have low standards!
That odd-angle board would have driven me mental too
Aidan
Guilty as charged
To misquote Oscar Wilde. Perfection is the last resting place for the unimaginative. What a fantastic thread Mike! I've just lost about two hours just flicking through it.
I plan to build something similar once our house purchase goes through - probably won't start until the new year now. I may start a new thread if you don't mind to pick your brains, my plan is something a little larger, incorporating a room above, probably using attic trusses...
Really inspirational work!!
Thanks
Aled
:text-bravo:
I plan to build something similar once our house purchase goes through - probably won't start until the new year now. I may start a new thread if you don't mind to pick your brains, my plan is something a little larger, incorporating a room above, probably using attic trusses...
Really inspirational work!!
Thanks
Aled
:text-bravo:
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Thanks Aled, and welcome to the forum.
Yes, it's probably best to start a new thread on your plans, and I'll happily comment. The main reason I am "blogging" my build like this is to help other people with theirs.
You'll be needing Planning Permission, if you are adding a 2nd storey......but that isn't as daunting a prospect as most people think.
Mike
Yes, it's probably best to start a new thread on your plans, and I'll happily comment. The main reason I am "blogging" my build like this is to help other people with theirs.
You'll be needing Planning Permission, if you are adding a 2nd storey......but that isn't as daunting a prospect as most people think.
Mike
Wizard9999
Old Oak
Aledafis":1scd9lsg said:
Aled
Looks like your first post, so welcome and why not introduce yourself on the welcome board.
Please note that Mike's workshop is the biggest possible without building regs (and I think planning permission). Mike is very clear that his approach may not be suitable for a building requiring buildings regs.
Terry.
Mike G
Petrified Pine
I guess I should post this photo, as it shows some of the progress since my last posting. I have got up to plate height all round, with just the gables to board. I can't start boarding those until I have the undercloak in place, because I want a really simple junction between boards and roof, without a bargeboard (I really don't like barge boards).........
My other thread shows that I have started demolishing the house, so that I can have the slates off the roof to do the verges of the shed (and thus allow me to finish the boarding).
My other thread shows that I have started demolishing the house, so that I can have the slates off the roof to do the verges of the shed (and thus allow me to finish the boarding).
Thanks for the welcome guys! Yes I understand that I'd need planning permission to go over 4m in height, but didn't know that a workshop would be subject to building regs, I was hoping to do avoid that hassle!
I'll start a new thread over the weekend to avoid taking this one further off topic.
Thanks
Aled
I'll start a new thread over the weekend to avoid taking this one further off topic.
Thanks
Aled
Mike G":2vxsn0a4 said:
I used Permavent breather membrane - which can be used for roofs and walls - and their technical drawings show options of with and without ventilation cavities for warm 'roof' type structures. I chose not to batten out the walls based on these drawings so I guess time will tell. It is only a shed for the short term - might be a summerhouse in years to come, who knows.
Great WIP by the way. I used some of your ideas from the shed build but compared to this I wish I'd have seen it sooner. I'm just painting up the inside now and then I'll post some WIP pictures. I know, from your project, that I've made some mistakes but I'll have to tackle them down the line.
Mike G
Petrified Pine
My dodgy back has relented a bit, and I got a few hours in on the workshop today. Taking it very gently indeed.
I bought some new slates, 250 x 500, to use as undercloaking. If you don't know what this means, the photos will make it clear in a minute. First job was to mark them and cut then in half length-ways. Marking slates is easy: you scratch them with a nail, so I made a quick gauge:
.......and scratched a line up the middle of all of slates.
Then using a mini angle grinder I cut them all:
The next decision is exactly how much overhang you want. I worked this out, then found a piece of wood that wide to act as a guide........put it underneath the undercloak against the batten, and tap the undercloak into position, flush with the face of your guide. Prior to placing the undercloak, though, you need to trim the overhanging battens to the right length, and cut off the spare underfelt/ sarking/ roofing membrane.
I mentioned previously that I don't nail the battens at the end of the roof, and it is because of this next step. You need to bend the battens up slightly, insert the slate under the membrane and the battens, then let the battens back down to hold the slate in place. I found it easiest to use wedges to hold the battens up:
Next decision: which way up do you want the undercloak slates? Slates are guillotined to size, which leaves a very clean cut edge on one side, and a more rustic edge on the other. I had no hesitation in showing the more rustic edge downward (the top will be covered by mortar). Of course, the edge I have just cut was ragged and horrible, and that went to the inside where it will never be seen again.
Next decision: how far do you need the lowest slate to overhang the rafter foot? I erred on the generous side, and allowed for 20mm "fascia" (it isn't a proper one), and 50mm to get to halfway across the gutter, both measured horizontally rather than down the slope of the roof. Put your first slate undercloak in place, pull out the wedges, adjust, and repeat all the way up the verge, nailing the battens down to the last rafter once you have 2 or 3 slates in place (after a final adjustment). It is possible to nail through slate, although there is a risk of cracking it. However, I had about 15mm of rafter to aim a nail at without going through the slate, so did that instead.
The top slate will need to be cut to length.
Now you can see why this was the next step in the building process: at last, I have an edge to work to for my boards up the gable.
Back still OK, but stiffening up.........so I plodded on, cutting boards, painting the ends, offering up, checking horizontal, nailing them in place.
This is definitely the look I am after: a really slim and simple detail. I am not a big fan of barge boards, which weren't often used on vernacular out buildings in the area. Modern houses use a cream or grey cementitious board as an undercloak, but that just isn't a pretty detail, and would be inappropriate in this situation. You can use slate under tiled rooves, too, and a really nice look is a clay plain tile used as an undercloak on a plain tile or pantile roof........but you have to think about that a bit first, as the tiles are thick and don't fit under the battens.
Now, where's the paracetamol?
I bought some new slates, 250 x 500, to use as undercloaking. If you don't know what this means, the photos will make it clear in a minute. First job was to mark them and cut then in half length-ways. Marking slates is easy: you scratch them with a nail, so I made a quick gauge:
.......and scratched a line up the middle of all of slates.
Then using a mini angle grinder I cut them all:
The next decision is exactly how much overhang you want. I worked this out, then found a piece of wood that wide to act as a guide........put it underneath the undercloak against the batten, and tap the undercloak into position, flush with the face of your guide. Prior to placing the undercloak, though, you need to trim the overhanging battens to the right length, and cut off the spare underfelt/ sarking/ roofing membrane.
I mentioned previously that I don't nail the battens at the end of the roof, and it is because of this next step. You need to bend the battens up slightly, insert the slate under the membrane and the battens, then let the battens back down to hold the slate in place. I found it easiest to use wedges to hold the battens up:
Next decision: which way up do you want the undercloak slates? Slates are guillotined to size, which leaves a very clean cut edge on one side, and a more rustic edge on the other. I had no hesitation in showing the more rustic edge downward (the top will be covered by mortar). Of course, the edge I have just cut was ragged and horrible, and that went to the inside where it will never be seen again.
Next decision: how far do you need the lowest slate to overhang the rafter foot? I erred on the generous side, and allowed for 20mm "fascia" (it isn't a proper one), and 50mm to get to halfway across the gutter, both measured horizontally rather than down the slope of the roof. Put your first slate undercloak in place, pull out the wedges, adjust, and repeat all the way up the verge, nailing the battens down to the last rafter once you have 2 or 3 slates in place (after a final adjustment). It is possible to nail through slate, although there is a risk of cracking it. However, I had about 15mm of rafter to aim a nail at without going through the slate, so did that instead.
The top slate will need to be cut to length.
Now you can see why this was the next step in the building process: at last, I have an edge to work to for my boards up the gable.
Back still OK, but stiffening up.........so I plodded on, cutting boards, painting the ends, offering up, checking horizontal, nailing them in place.
This is definitely the look I am after: a really slim and simple detail. I am not a big fan of barge boards, which weren't often used on vernacular out buildings in the area. Modern houses use a cream or grey cementitious board as an undercloak, but that just isn't a pretty detail, and would be inappropriate in this situation. You can use slate under tiled rooves, too, and a really nice look is a clay plain tile used as an undercloak on a plain tile or pantile roof........but you have to think about that a bit first, as the tiles are thick and don't fit under the battens.
Now, where's the paracetamol?
old
New Shoots
Like a lot of us i have a bad back which hurts on the left side ( since i got what you described as shot there) and can also hurt higher up above the base of the spine when it gets tired, i use a weight lifters belt from ebay with a velcro fasten and find it helps a lot as well as reminding you if your moving or stretching more than you should and i recommend it.