Mike's Workshop Build (Extension & slates)

[Wizard9999]

Mike

Sorry to hear your back has been giving you trouble, but glad you are feeling good enough to restart work on the workshop - have to say I was a little upset that you were letting something as trivial as the place you live get in the way :lol:.

As you say the slate under cloak is a very simple detail, which I think looks very good - as the great man once said "less is more".

Terry.

 

[Mike G]

Thanks for the suggestion, Chris. I have lived with this for 20 years.

Thanks Terry......sorry to have disappointed for the last few weeks.

 

[Phil]

Mike that looks very good.

What do you about the gap between bottom slate and the one on the top? (batton gap)

Cheers
Phil

 

[Mike G]

Mike that looks very good.

What do you about the gap between bottom slate and the one on the top? (batton gap)

Cheers
Phil

Phil, that will be "pointed up" with a strong (3:1) sand/ cement mortar. Which is why the battens are cut 15 or 20 mm back from the outside face.

 

[Mike G]

Mike that looks very good.

What do you about the gap between bottom slate and the one on the top? (batton gap)

Cheers
Phil

Phil, that will be "pointed up" with a strong (3:1) sand/ cement mortar. Which is why the battens are cut 15 or 20 mm back from the outside face.

This is what it looks like with tiles:

http://www.oxfordroofer.com/image_library/library/o/oxf/oxfordroofer.com/orig_slide0008_image024.jpg

That photo shows a cementitious board as the undercloak.

 

[Phil]

Thanks for that.
Very interresting way of doing it.

What is the lifetime of the cement mortar mix?

Cheers
Phil

 

[9fingers]

Thanks for that.
Very interresting way of doing it.

What is the lifetime of the cement mortar mix?

Cheers
Phil

Mine has been up for 32 years now Phil and just showing a couple of cracks if that is anything to go by.

Bob

 

[Mike G]

It can be at least 130 years, Phil. I worked on a project last year, a house built in 1880, where the verges were still 100%.

 

[Stargazer]

It is good to see such attention to the detail, so thank you from me for showing all the steps and how to pictures rather than just the major steps as I am sure it does slow you down somewhat.

Ian L.

 

[Wizard9999]

It is good to see such attention to the detail, so thank you from me for showing all the steps and how to pictures rather than just the major steps as I am sure it does slow you down somewhat.

Ian L.

:text-+1: Mike, if nothing else your legacy will be a whole generation of workshops that outlast the builders!

 

[Mike G]

It is good to see such attention to the detail, so thank you from me for showing all the steps and how to pictures rather than just the major steps as I am sure it does slow you down somewhat.

Ian L.

No problem Ian.

:text-+1: Mike, if nothing else your legacy will be a whole generation of workshops that outlast the builders!

Ooooh, I hope so!

 

[Mike G]

One last little burst of activity on the workshop before work on the extension starts in earnest on Monday.

I wanted to board up the gable between the big roof and the small roof, and to do that, you need the lead in place. However, the lead would normally go in at the same time as the slates (if using soakers), or immediately afterwards (if using a cover flashing). However, because I won't be slating this for many months, I have to do things in slightly the wrong order, which required a little bit of thinking. Firstly, I realised I would need some temporary packing above the battens to create the space needed under the lead by the slates. Secondly, because the lead will have to be folded up out of the way when I fix the slates, and because I don't know exactly how thick the slates will sit on the roof, I decided to roll the bend in the lead rather than have a tight right angle bend. So, I just pushed it by hand over the edge of a scaffold board, and didn't dress it at all.

Code 4 lead, 240 wide (80mm upstand, 160mm over the slates). I used 2 or 3 clout nails to pin it in place, right in the top few mm of lead.



Then it was just a question of cutting about a dozen identical boards, painting the ends, and carefully locating them before nailing. The aim is to nail into the wood without going through the lead.



The big complication with lead flashing and feather edge board is what happens at the bottom. The lead has to go from being under the boards to being above the boards. Luckily, this junction is necessarily at the level of the guttering, and so the worst of the bodge is hidden. Anyway, you see what I did here, with the lead just being roughly folded by hand, with the final dressing occurring after the gutters have been fitted:



Right, that's that side done: Now to do the back:



The back is easier because the lead extends past the side wall due to the big roof overhang. No messing around at the bottom:



At the top, there are 3 layers of lead. The 2 flashings, a cover piece (saddle), which has the vertical element cut to allow the horizontals to dress down the roof either side, and finally, a small piece to cover that vertical cut, and this is dressed over the saddle. A proper old fashioned roofer would weld the last 2 pieces into one proper saddle. I don't have the equipment or the skills to weld lead.



Then the boards:



Finally the little triangle at the top. My rear boards arrived about 6 or 8mm out of level with the fron boards, which I was quite please with. You have no reference point which would enable you to keep the boards exactly in line with each other on opposite sides of the roof. A little adjustment as you near the top and everything works out OK.



Then I boarded the northern gable and did the undercloaking.



My estimate of slates required worked for all the undercloaks worked out pretty well. This is all I had left over!!!



My estimate of boards wasn't so good, though, and I ran out going up the gable. I have to go and fetch one single board tomorrow, which is a bit annoying.

Next, I cleaned up the reclaimed window and stuck it in...4 screws with the heads left proud, so I can take it out easily in 6 or 12 months and replace with a decent window:





We've done a bit of painting recently too, and stripped the temporary plastic off from covering the pilinth. The finished look is starting to emerge.







There's still a bit of painting to do on the rear elevations:



My wife will be finishing that in the next few days, whilst I start work on the foundations for the extension.

 

[Frank]

Hi Mike I've been following your build with interest & am enjoying it, thanks for sharing.

Your progress this weekend looks good but I hope you don't mine me mentioning that your lead flashing looks to to be have been installed in one long piece either side of the ridge, it should be done in lengths of 5' with overlaps.

I only mention this as I'd hate to think of you having problems with the lead at a later date due to expansion & contraction.

Kind regards,

Frank.

 

[Mike G]

You're dead right, Frank, but I took the view that with it being a cover flashing (ie one edge not trapped), that 8 feet wasn't too much of a risk. If it moves, I can't see what harm it could do. Altogether a different thing in a gutter or a valley. But you are correct, and I should have said as much in my commentary.

Mike

 

[TrimTheKing]

Looking good Mike. Question for you, and I know it's probably best asked in a separate thread.

I have kind of copied your layout but only taken the smaller section in from the front, keeping the rear wall at the same level. I am also planning to build in brick, so in my instance how do I go about doing that small bit of wall up the diagonal section without having to build a full wall inside and lose all that space?

Picture probably helps more than my words, and I will move this to another thread so as not to take yours OT.



Cheers
Mark

 

[Peter Sefton]

I almost mentioned the length of the lead myself. I didn't because I thought you had it covered as the rest of the build has been sooooo good.
Nice WIP and great to watch a very similar build as my own school workshop.

 

[Mike G]

.......
I have kind of copied your layout but only taken the smaller section in from the front, keeping the rear wall at the same level. I am also planning to build in brick, so in my instance how do I go about doing that small bit of wall up the diagonal section without having to build a full wall inside and lose all that space?......

You'll need a piece of steel in there Mark, which will mean a pier on the back wall, and some careful detailing at the front so that it doesn't appear on the outside. A structural engineer will design that.

If you are using my design, but doing it in brick, how thick are your walls? Don't forget that to fall below the Building Regs threshold, you need your floor area (not footprint..........but the area inside the external walls) to be under 30 sq. m. So, if your walls are thicker than mine, you can make the external dimensions bigger than mine.

 

[9fingers]

Mark,

One way to avoid the steel, is to make the parallelogram section in timber and tile hang the outside to match/contrast the roof tiles. The rafter under the stud section would almost certainly need to be doubled up to take the weight of the tile hanging.

Bob

 

[Mike G]

Have a look at the scale drawing, Mark. Imagine some 6 inches upstand of lead above the abutment roof. If there is much brick showing above that I'll be surprised, and it may, therefore, be best to make the structure as Bob describes, or to do it boarded. If the total gape between rooves is less than, say, 300 or 350mm, then you might do it entirely in lead, in which case the wall can be timber.

As an aside, have you considered doing the "extension" part of your workshop in a contrasting material (black boards spring to mind, in light of your house finish)?

 

[Frank]

If it moves, I can't see what harm it could do. Altogether a different thing in a gutter or a valley. But you are correct, and I should have said as much in my commentary.

Mike

I agree in a gutter or valley the damage would would be more extensive as excess movement leads to cracking of the lead & costly replacement, coincidentally I inspected such a gutter last week.

I've tended to find with cover flashing that the movement causes the lead to pull out of the abutment, as such the lead isn't damaged just needs refitting, though in your case as you've quite rightly taken the membrane up the abutment any dislodging of the lead shouldn't lead to water ingress.

I look forward to your future progress.

Kind regards,


Frank.

 

[Wizard9999]

If you are using my design, but doing it in brick, how thick are your walls? Don't forget that to fall below the Building Regs threshold, you need your floor area (not footprint..........but the area inside the external walls) to be under 30 sq. m. So, if your walls are thicker than mine, you can make the external dimensions bigger than mine.

Mark

I had a concern heading in the other direction, size wise. If you are just insetting one side for the smaller section will the extra floor space created by the larger size of this part of the workshop take you over 30sqm and therefore into the land of building control?

Terry.

 

[TrimTheKing]

I need full planning regardless (in green belt), and am putting it right next to the boundary so need building regs anyway, so took the view that I might as well go as big as I need and just suck it up.

Cheers
Mark

 

[Mike G]

I went around the outside of the workshop with a long knife, cutting off the surplus DPM. Then I set out for the paths in front of it, and down the side, and turned the soil over roughly. The paths will have to wait for spring.

 

[Mike G]

I've had a couple of days in the workshop, and have wired lights and sockets, as well as making a couple of door-holder-opener-thingies:









I put in 7 four foot HF flourescent fittings, and 11 double sockets, including one remotely switched for my table router. I don't have a supply to the workshop yet, so have to roll out an extension lead every day. I am very aware of overloading it, so will never have more than one thing on at a time, (plus the lights).

 

[Pinch]

I've popped into this thread here-n-there and I must hand it to you Mike, for an architect, your practical skills are pretty good.

 

[Mike G]

Thanks Paul. I was a builder/ developer before I was an architect. I'll sometimes be found on a client's site doing some of the fancy carpentry: dormers, oak porches and the like.........because drawing all day every day is a bit dull.

 

[Wizard9999]

I was a builder/ developer before I was an architect.

Ah, all is now revealed!

 

[Mike G]

I was a builder/ developer before I was an architect.

Ah, all is now revealed!

Well, let's add some detail. When I retired from cricket I bought some land and did a self-build. I enjoyed it so much that I did another one, next door (it's that house I have just sold). I was entirely self-taught........I've never been employed as a builder. Whilst building the second of those houses I started my architecture course at Uni. With a friend, we then built another 5 or 6 houses, and did a couple of major renovations.

 

[Wizard9999]

Beginning to see why it is that you can get a workshop built between lunch and tea on a rainy Tuesday, while the rest of us take months .

 

[Pinch]

Thanks Paul. I was a builder/ developer before I was an architect. I'll sometimes be found on a client's site doing some of the fancy carpentry: dormers, oak porches and the like.........because drawing all day every day is a bit dull.

Ah ha! I thought perhaps there was hands-on experience in your CV somewhere. And good on you! I would say the best understanding architects are those with practical experience who actually know the practicalities in structure.

I seriously considered architecture many years ago and I was offered a place at Brookes, Oxford, but I didn't like (still don't) the planning department. I see an architect as an artist - one who designs buildings (with the backup of an engineer of course) and the English planning department often strip the creativity away from the architect. During my designing years, I worked on a project with one of Norman Foster's bods and this chap would only work abroad (like a lot of them do) purely because there was much more creative freedom in designing buildings. Our planning department are a law unto themselves.

 

[Mike G]

A wet day or two has kept me from bricklaying, so I did some stuff in the workshop.

Firstly, I have always had a shelf behind the bench for the most commonly used tools, so I bought a piece of 200 x 25 PAR and made one. The variation is that it extends beyond the end of the bench and to the corner of the workshop.



Previously, I have had individual holes for screwdrivers, but thought this time I might just have slots. They were great, except, when I tried screwdrivers in them, they just fell over like a pack of on-end dominoes. So I thought for a minute or two, and came up with this underneath:



Here is the completed shelf, with lipping (with C.3mm upstand):



Next I turned my attention to my almighty pile of scraps and off-cuts. I haven't ever found a satisfactory way of storing them such that I can see what I've got and get to it, but I thought I had a good idea, so gave it a go. This is fairly agricultural, just being some cleaned up scrap, butt jointed and screwed. The idea is that the wood doesn't just lean on a pile of wood behind it, because that ends in chaos. It is divided into 6 segments, each with a back, front and sides, so stuff leans on that without falling over.



It seems to work:



The black plastic box (an unused header tank) beside it is my scrap bin, for DaveL to collect........

Right, I pushed the brush around briefly, and so thought I would give you a little tour, going clockwise from the door:

My bench. Most of the power tools to the right are permanently plugged in, so there is no faffing around if I need to use them at the bench.



Shelves for fixings, finishes, odds & ends, then my quarter-ton cast iron floor standing pillar drill, and a sash cramp rack shamelessly copied from Alan Hudson. Turning up the long wall, I have a setting-out bench, currently hidden under my big site-saw (a sliding compound mitre saw, 12"). Underneath are tool drawers full of unsorted tools lying loose and in a tangle from the move. These drawers are ripe for some attention.



The woodracks I hope to keep empty until I bring in wood for a specific project. Under my setting out bench alongside the drawers are my smaller saw-horses. To the right of that, hinged off the front of my radial arm saw bench is my fold-out router table, with router permanently fixed to it. Under the saw is my welder and compressor:



You've just seen the woodrack, and the scrap bin (always in a corner so that offcuts can just get thrown in the general direction and they will hit the wall and bounce into the box. Moving into the smaller part of the workshop, I have a narrow bench with a metal working vice, my scary sharpening stuff, and a grinder. Below it is a tea chest which is my general bin, so drawers & storage. Above, more shelves, more bits 'n pieces.



Planer thicknesser in the foreground. The middle of the far wall will have a hatch (not for a while). To the right, sheet material storage below my clamp rack.



In the corner next to the door is my bandsaw, with spirit levels and straight edges, squares etc behind.



Most of all, I have loads of floor space. Room to work around my projects is what I was after:

 

[Wizard9999]

Most of all, I have loads of floor space. Room to work around my projects is what I was after

You certainly do Mike, an almost uniquely luxuriously spacious workshop compared to all the non-professional WIPs and tours I have seen in my limited time on this and other forums. It looks really, really nice and I'm sure it will be a brilliant place to work.

:text-bravo:

Terry.

 

[Mike G]

Thanks Terry.

 

[TrimTheKing]

Mmmmm a peak into my future I hope!

Looking good Mike. You considering filling some of that space with a table saw now?

Cheers
Mark

 

[Mike G]

Mmmmm a peak into my future I hope!

Looking good Mike. You considering filling some of that space with a table saw now?

Cheers
Mark

No, I'm considering filling it with some big lumps of green oak!!

 

[AndyP]

Have you settled on a new DX system yet Mike?

 

[Rod]

Nice space but seems short of hand tools?[emoji3]

Does your bench window face South - you may need a blind?

Rod

 

[Mike G]

DX? If that equals extractor........then no, not yet. I'm watching eBay.

Rod, I've lots of tools still in drawers after being hurriedly stuffed away when I moved workshops. That window faces west, so gets direct sun in the late afternoon/ evening. If the sun did become a nuisance, I could shut the internal shutter.

 

[RogerS]

Very interesting, thanks, Mike. Like the screwdriver idea and the shelf at the back. I just might nick that idea

Your scrap rack looks good. I am drowning under too many scraps but have got to the point where I think I will probably put it all on the fire. I have found that when looking for stuff in the scrap pile, if it is the right width, it will be the wrong thickness. If it is the right width and thickness then it won't be long enough. If all three are OK you find you need many more than what you have spare. Plus if you are cutting scrap down to width/length/thickness you waste so much time as each scrap needs prepping separately.

 

[mickthetree]

Very nice Mike and well done on an excellent thread.
Is that the same dewalt chop saw you had when I came and got some of that oak off you some years ago?

I still have it, moved through a number of properties now and hope to get to it very soon as my dinning table top. Very beautiful planks they are too.