• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

Mike builds a teardrop (doors, cedar strips, ironmongery)

Goodness me! I'll be having to sub out my instrument side bending to you! :)

But, yes, while there will always be spring-back after steam bending, even when drying/cooling in the former. Gluing the laminations around the correct shape former, or in a mould, is the way to go after that. And epoxy or PU glue is the way to go, too, especially if heat or moisture might be involved.
 
While I'm enjoying the hand made approach, with its proper joints, I'm left wondering how the commercial versions are made? Are they all just glued and screwed together? Do they have similar steamed ribs?
 
AndyT said:
While I'm enjoying the hand made approach, with its proper joints, I'm left wondering how the commercial versions are made? Are they all just glued and screwed together? Do they have similar steamed ribs?
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Not even that, Andy. All the joints are butt joints, either stapled or nailed. I presume the higher load joints would be screwed. The curved pieces are made by cutting the shape out of plywood and gluing a pile of them together. That was always my reserve position if the steaming/ laminating approach failed.
 
That’s not an easy thing to get right Mike, yes as you found out laminating stays near enough put. Steaming doesn’t.
You didn’t need to steam before bending for laminating though if I’ve understood correctly.
 
Cabinetman said:
That’s not an easy thing to get right Mike, yes as you found out laminating stays near enough put. Steaming doesn’t.
You didn’t need to steam before bending for laminating though if I’ve understood correctly.
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Laminating with epoxy stays put. Laminating with PVA doesn't! And yeah, steaming first takes most of the strain out of laminating on a curve. It may have been a belt-and-braces approach, but I couldn't afford to be too far wrong.
 
Mike G said:
Not even that, Andy. All the joints are butt joints, either stapled or nailed. I presume the higher load joints would be screwed. The curved pieces are made by cutting the shape out of plywood and gluing a pile of them together. That was always my reserve position if the steaming/ laminating approach failed.
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Presumably exactly that for small low production manufacturers but when you get to the big boys both in production volume and size of caravans and motorhomes then the walls are basically a pressed glued sandwich including insulation whith just a few reinforcing strips where furniture need to be fixed and around the openings which are pre cut on CNC machines. Roofs and end panels are usually a mix of glassfibre and ABS. Development in industrial glues has been rapid over the last decade or so. They trundle in the rolling chassis with floorand fit the furniture and much of the wiring harness before the walls, roof and end panels go on and everything is connected up. The furniture is made in house and 80% automated as well.

The manufacturers have public open days and it's an interesting watch. The amount of glue they use is astonishing but they still manage to get leaks. :cry: The last I visited a few years ago was Elddis.
 
Thanks Bob.

Years ago, I met someone who used to work at a caravan builder in Bristol and he said it was his idea to switch from building from the outside, working in, to building from the inside, working out.
 
AndyT said:
and rarely specified.Thanks Bob.

Years ago, I met someone who used to work at a caravan builder in Bristol and he said it was his idea to switch from building from the outside, working in, to building from the inside, working out.
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:ROFLMAO: Someone in most manufacturers would have made that claim Andy. He would likely have worked for Bailey Caravans who were one of the more upmarket brands during my time in the industry.

I worked for a few years as a regional manager for ABI Caravans who owned Elddis as well, lived in Beverley close to the factories so saw plenty of production and had a little input. The chairman and founder Terry Reed built the first caravan in his shed (at least that's what he told me) and I'd guarantee he'd have claimed the same production idea as would Siddle Cooke whe started Elddis.
Those were the days when matchstick frames were laid out on flat boards and butt joints stapled together then internal hardboard and external aluminium stapled on, insulation was an extra rarely ordered except on the static caravans.

I bought an Elddis at the time but personally watched it through the production line at Consett to make sure they did it properly.
 
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Nothing much to report this week, as I have mainly been painting. I applied 3 coats of Hempels Primer Undercoat, and then 3 coats of their Bilge Paint. The aim is to keep moisture and vapour out of the walls (from the inside), so this might not be the final finish. Each coat took about 3 hours to apply, so there was lots of this:

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I glued the ply to the inside skin of the galley hatch, and screwed some temporary hinges to hold it in place, just because:

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I also cut a hole (and lined it) in the worktop:

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.........so that I can fit the hob:

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GaryR said:
Almost usable, now.
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:D :D Well, so long as it's not raining, and that no-one minds that there are no lights or number plate.......and that there are no doors. Apart from that....
 
Cabinetman said:
.......No hatch through to make a cup of tea from the reclining position?
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Definitely not. I don't want the smells or the noises from the kitchen in the bedroom (by noises, I mean the fridge). And if there was ever a gas leak, I don't want that getting into the bedroom. Besides, a hatch would cost storage space in both the kitchen and the bedroom.
 
Cabinetman said:
Haha, can’t imagine it would work anyway.
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Oh, there are plenty of commercial ones in the States with a "pass-through"......a hatch between kitchen and bedroom. It's quite a sought after feature, apparently, but I don't see any advantages.
 
I bet Mrs G has a teasmade, I doubt Mr G has.;):)

I guess the galley hatch will open more than that when finished: as is, it does not look high enough to stand under.
 
AndyP said:
I guess the galley hatch will open more than that when finished: as is, it does not look high enough to stand under.
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It will, but it is.....if that makes sense. It's finished opening height is going to boil down to the geometry of the gas struts.
 
firedfromthecircus said:
I've seen a lot of the canoe builders use metal as backing strips when steam bending which I guess helps eliminate this kind of breakout. Just gives the wood some extra support.
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I think the theory with those is that they enable the wood to be kept in compression throughout the bending process.
 
AndyP said:
I bet Mrs G has a teasmade, I doubt Mr G has.;):)..............
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I have one of those, a bit old and decrepit now but I can't afford to change it for a newer model. Her name is S..... and she does the washing and cleaning as well. ;)
 
Six days of painting followed by 4 days of varnishing doesn't make a riveting tale. There was lots of this sort of thing:

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I'm really impressed with the bilge paint. It's really thick and robust, and although it needed de-nibbing during the undercoat phase, it's produced a lovely finish.

Before starting the varnishing, I glued a slice of sapele on the face of the fridge drawer, as well as some pieces on the top to give it some shape. We wouldn't want any straight lines, would we...

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I found a scrap of bog oak, which really was a bit rough:

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I hacked off the sapwood and rough stuff with a draw knife:

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....and was left with a perfectly good drawer pull:

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Whilst playing about with bits of bog oak, I made a little insert for the top of the curved (laminated) sides of the kitchen:

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The use for that will become clear in due course.

Those curved pieces on top of the kitchen side walls needed fastening in place now that the painting was done. As the curve of the laminate didn't exactly match the curve of the walls, they needed screwing in to pull them to shape. So, I made some plugs:

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...and then glued and screwed the pieces into place:

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Remember, that piece is where the seals from the lid make contact, and the gutter in the middle allows anything that gets past the first seal to run down and out. At the bottom edge of the galley hatch, I need an equivalent place for the seals to contact, and in line with the aesthetic of the rest of the kitchen, that was to be sapele. I was down to my last scraps, so had to glue something up. Don't anyone ever tell me I've got too many clamps!

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Back in a minute.
 
The bottom edge detail was something I puzzled over a lot when drawing this out a year or two back, but having got the steel detail right, it worked nicely. It's to go here:

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I had to take this section, square it up, and add a couple of rebates:

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With a bit of finessing it went in well:

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Next on the agenda was a start on the edges to the galley hatch which will take the seals. These are curved, so out with the steam-box (a shorter version this time) and wallpaper stripper:

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I ripped up some oak because I don't have any Douglas fir left, made a couple of forms (over-tight bend), and then entertained the grandchildren with an afternoon of steaming and bending:

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I was able to then remove a lot of masking tape, and screw the kitchen and bedroom furniture back into place:

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Oh, and an unamusing aside. You can see an Audi A1 in the background of the second last photo. We bought it 3 or 4 weeks ago having been assured twice (once in writing) by the Audi dealership that they could tow 750kg unbraked, and substantially more braked. It turns out that it isn't rated for towing at all. I couldn't tow a wheelbarrow with it, let alone a teardrop. So, the bloody thing has to go back. We're ........erm.......discussing..... details of that return at the moment. I hope we don't end up needing the services of a solicitor.
 
Cabinetman said:
Loving the bog oak particularly the drawer pull. Now it’s all varnished it’s looking really very good.
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Thanks. The bog oak detailing on the body of the teardrop is going to be finished with epoxy and a 2 part varnish, so I am curious to see how that comes up in comparison.
 
Mike G said:
Oh, and an unamusing aside. You can see an Audi A1 in the background of the second last photo. We bought it 3 or 4 weeks ago having been assured twice (once in writing) by the Audi dealership that they could tow 750kg unbraked, and substantially more braked. It turns out that it isn't rated for towing at all. I couldn't tow a wheelbarrow with it, let alone a teardrop. So, the bloody thing has to go back. We're ........erm.......discussing..... details of that return at the moment. I hope we don't end up needing the services of a solicitor.
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If I had known you were thinking of an Audi I would have put you right. The problems I have had ver the last 15 months are diabolical. The customer service works on the basis that you work for them and you do as they tell you. Getting a broken down car repaired takes months. Even getting the car into the dealership can take a month.
Caravan is coming on very nicely.
 
You may have addressed this earlier and I've missed it, but is there any particular reason for keeping the tubular latch mortise in the edge of the worktop/repurposed door? It looks a bit incongruous now that everything else is lookingso spiffy!
 
Setch said:
You may have addressed this earlier and I've missed it, but is there any particular reason for keeping the tubular latch mortise in the edge of the worktop/repurposed door? It looks a bit incongruous now that everything else is lookingso spiffy!
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That worktop is going to be laminated with Formica or similar. I may (or may not) do a little repair on that cut out beforehand.
 
PAC1 said:
If I had known you were thinking of an Audi I would have put you right. The problems I have had ver the last 15 months are diabolical. The customer service works on the basis that you work for them and you do as they tell you. Getting a broken down car repaired takes months. Even getting the car into the dealership can take a month.
Caravan is coming on very nicely.
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That sounds awful. I'm rather hoping that our local branch isn't that bad.
 
Seconded re Audi. We have a Q7 tractor and the bonnet release has failed due to the catch in the driver's footwell snapping off. Audi quote at least a 6 week wait for repair as there are no new release levers available apparently. Very surprised that an A3 cannot tow at all though. We have had various Audis for years and customer service went off a cliff several years ago.

The boat on wheels looks nice.
 
Looking great, that bog oak gutter is lovely.

Can't believe that the A1 can't tow anything at all, that's surprising, but the fact they told you it could is shocking!
 
AJB Temple said:
......... Very surprised that an A3 cannot tow at all though.......
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Ours is an A1. The A3, which we'll have to look at next, can tow up to 680kg according to Audi (so I don't trust the figure). Given that a 1l Fiesta can tow 750kg, that's somewhat bizarre. And given that I'm working on an estimate of 600kg for this teardrop, including battery and water, but excluding food, bedding and clothing, that feels at the moment as though it's a bit too tight for comfort.
 
Mike G said:
Ours is an A1. The A3, which we'll have to look at next, can tow up to 680kg according to Audi (so I don't trust the figure). Given that a 1l Fiesta can tow 750kg, that's somewhat bizarre. And given that I'm working on an estimate of 600kg for this teardrop, including battery and water, but excluding food, bedding and clothing, that feels at the moment as though it's a bit too tight for comfort.
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I'm going back in my memory here, but the car's manufacturer's plate, every car, not just Audis, should show something like 4 weights; Gross Vehicle Weight, Gross Train Weight, Front Axle weight, Rear Axle weight. It may also show Kerbside Weight, and Towing Capacity.

The Gross Train Weight is what shows that it can tow, the 'train' being the combination of the towing vehicle and its trailer. If the GTW is shown as '0', then I think the vehicle is not plated to tow.

Hope this might help.
 
Malc2098 said:
I'm going back in my memory here, but the car's manufacturer's plate, every car, not just Audis, should show something like 4 weights; Gross Vehicle Weight, Gross Train Weight, Front Axle weight, Rear Axle weight. It may also show Kerbside Weight, and Towing Capacity.

The Gross Train Weight is what shows that it can tow, the 'train' being the combination of the towing vehicle and its trailer. If the GTW is shown as '0', then I think the vehicle is not plated to tow.

Hope this might help.
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Indeed, that's exactly right. I won't buy a car again without subtracting GVW from GTW myself, and not rely on others. However, if you ask a dealer, you'd expect that they would check and report accurately.....not just pick something off the internet.
 
PAC1 said:
If I had known you were thinking of an Audi I would have put you right. The problems I have had ver the last 15 months are diabolical. The customer service works on the basis that you work for them and you do as they tell you. Getting a broken down car repaired takes months. Even getting the car into the dealership can take a month.
Caravan is coming on very nicely.
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I think it's down to the luck of the draw with your local dealer just as it is with most businesses. I owned 3 Audis ove a 6 year period. A6 saloon, A4 Avant Quatro and an A6 Avant quatro, and not a single issue with the dealer including the servicing dept.

The main dealer where I bought my current car is a nightmare (Sytner) but the one in the Borders is excellent.
 
Mike G said:
Indeed, that's exactly right. I won't buy a car again without subtracting GVW from GTW myself, and not rely on others. However, if you ask a dealer, you'd expect that they would check and report accurately.....not just pick something off the internet.
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There are some cars which the manufacturers have declared unsuitable for towing for various but as long as it's out of warranty there's usually no reason why you can't, as long as you can find someone who's made a towbar for the model of course.

I learned years ago that car salespeople sometimes don't know their products but still cofidently spout rubbish. I wanted my current car to have a factory fitted electric towbar, saleman says not possible that option doesn't exist so I "politely" informed him there was a 6 week old car on his forecourt that had exactly that and I ended up buying it.

If you get to stay in Northumberland on one of your trips Mike give me a shout if you have the time, I'd love to see your unique teardrop in the flesh.
 
Lons said:
.....If you get to stay in Northumberland on one of your trips Mike give me a shout if you have the time, I'd love to see your unique teardrop in the flesh.
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Absolutely. I've done a couple of trips to Northumberland, and it's time I went back.
 
Bob, @Lons I'm not sure that's correct. If there's no train weight, then it's not plated for towing. Back in the day, I'd have given that a tug and the driver, and owner, would have got a summons if there was a trailer attached. It also occurs to me that the insurance company might not be too happy about it either. So it could render the insurance cover void.
 
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